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17-01-2012, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Less numbers, they are out of control. Less mange, they are full of it, far more than I have ever known. The weak and sick will be culled quickly. Blessing for all.
wanted to rep you for that but it wont let me, because i only repped you before. well said.
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Moobli
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17-01-2012, 08:28 PM
Thank you to those who replied about lamping with a rifle. If what you are both saying is the case then I would much rather have that as a means of controlling foxes, than snares and hunting.

However, I am still not 100% convinced that the fox always freezes, as I have heard on a number of occasions that "the bugg*r got away" I guess I like the idea of a "sporting chance"!
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Borderdawn
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17-01-2012, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Thank you to those who replied about lamping with a rifle. If what you are both saying is the case then I would much rather have that as a means of controlling foxes, than snares and hunting.

However, I am still not 100% convinced that the fox always freezes, as I have heard on a number of occasions that "the bugg*r got away" I guess I like the idea of a "sporting chance"!
They freeze in the beam, the hunter takes the shot. The animal will then bolt if not killed instantly. Pretty rare in my experience, but as with all things, they are not always 100%

You heard the saying "like a cat/rabbit in the headlights?" Same thing with Foxes, Rabbits etc.. they do stop and freeze in the lamp beam.
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Jet&Copper
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17-01-2012, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
sadly you get old wives tales on both sides of the argument
this one above is one of the main ones of the pro camp.

firstly foxes arent that hard to shoot dead.
when i worked on a farm the foxes would freeze not flight, at close quarters. having done a little bit of target shooting myself, i would have killed one easily.
for the pro hunt lobby to say that the men of the land whom are used to guns couldnt kill a fox cleanly is a tad disingenuos, not to mention a bit insulting to label farmers in such a generalised incompetent way.
this slight only seems to be made about british farmers, in new zealand, where i was bought up, you wouldnt hear people saying that farmers cant shoot to kill small to medium wildlife at close to medium distance in a freeze stance.

of course their is the *potential* to only inflict injury.
the same *potential* would exist wth dogs.

but the likelihood for either would be low
Oh I think you misunderstood my post (or probably I didn't type it out well enough more like!)

My OH shoots foxes regularly on our farm, clean kill everytime

Although, with that idea you are relying on the nature of the shooter to only try for a clean kill, I'm sure there are many of a lesser nature who are happy to try a "pot shot" and potentially only injure the animal? I have definitely heard a few horror stories through the OH from various gamekeepers land owners!

What I meant, was from the anti-cruelty POV, why there would be a distinction between hunting with dogs and shooting. Both could be classed as "cruel" if a person was of that kind of mind? Do I make sense? No?

Would much rather a fox was shot than snared, I will say that. Hunting with dogs, I'm still undecided, but leaning towards it should be banned
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labradork
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17-01-2012, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Less numbers, they are out of control. Less mange, they are full of it, far more than I have ever known. The weak and sick will be culled quickly. Blessing for all.
Why can't that be achieved by using a gun then?
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Moobli
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17-01-2012, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
They freeze in the beam, the hunter takes the shot. The animal will then bolt if not killed instantly. Pretty rare in my experience, but as with all things, they are not always 100%

You heard the saying "like a cat/rabbit in the headlights?" Same thing with Foxes, Rabbits etc.. they do stop and freeze in the lamp beam.
Thank you. That will make me sleep a bit easier in my bed at night when I see the lamps flashing around all over the hillsides outside. I just hate the thought of a lingering and painful death or an animal suffering.
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Chris
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17-01-2012, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Less numbers, they are out of control. Less mange, they are full of it, far more than I have ever known. The weak and sick will be culled quickly. Blessing for all.
I think it's well established that hunts do very little in respect of controlling numbers
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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17-01-2012, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Rips your post doesn't come across as pro hunt, I wonder if we have different definitions? When I talk about being anti hunt, I mean the pursuit of foxes/ deer and the like with dogs, a pursuit which generally ends in the animals death and in my opinion an unnecessary pursuit as the animal could be shot. I am wondering if you define hunt differently? Perhaps to include shoots etc?
In what way?

For me hunting should be done with one of two things in mind:
  • Population control for conservation purposes etc
  • Hunting/shooting an animal that will be used to feed another eg humans.
So rough shooting, the control of Deer though hunting and shooting them etc is what I would consider hunting and something that I am "for". Very large commercial shoots aren't really my bag as the birds tend to be bred purely to be shot for sport with no other real purpose and I'm not interested in hunting animals purely for the thrill. That said many people will point out the economical issues re the employment opportunities large shoots provide, but that's another thread altogether!

For me fox hunting, as far as I've been able to ascertain, is done mainly for the joy of chasing down a wild animal to exhaustion so it can be killed by hounds, something I'm not really into.

Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
this post is exactly how and what i have always thought on this issue as well.
except the dodgiest piece of info that got me was the 'hunting foxes with hounds is more humane as shooting them will leave them all injured and dying a long painful death'
Yes this is a common one I've heard too, but like you say: if other countries can manage to control wild populations through shooting, then there's no reason why we can't either.
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Ramble
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18-01-2012, 07:13 AM
Thanks Rips, I thought you meant that but wanted to clarify I agree with everything you said.
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Borderdawn
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18-01-2012, 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Why can't that be achieved by using a gun then?
The Hounds find and flush the Fox. A Fox in cover will often remain still. If its out during the day, although not completely abnormal, its not that good, so it stands a fair chance something isnt right with that animal. Lamping is hit and miss with finding them, with Hounds you cover a huge area in a short space of time, locating the Fox wherever they be.
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Thank you. That will make me sleep a bit easier in my bed at night when I see the lamps flashing around all over the hillsides outside. I just hate the thought of a lingering and painful death or an animal suffering.
That is never the aim, ever. The first instinct of anything thats hurt is usually to bolt, especially wild animals, but usually the shot is clean.

Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
I think it's well established that hunts do very little in respect of controlling numbers
Is it? Oh right.
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