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Helena54
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15-12-2011, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
They pass it onto cattle through their faeces/urine Helen which is deposited onto the grass which the cows eat.Then the cows deposit their waste onto the grass and inturn infects badgers digging in the soil-its a nether ending cycle.

Why are badgers the chosen carrier? They're not-deer carry it as well,but they have their population managed (deer stalking) so it never becomes a problem.Infact landowners are legally obliged to manage large deer numbers and if they dont the goverment will employ stalkers to cull herds...then bill the landowner!

Like i said previously,badgers have been protected since the early 70's and have no natural predator so their numbers have increased dramatically.

With regards about Canada-its a possibility that Canadian cattle are fed mostly grain inside sheds instead of grazing on grass or maybe they simply have never had a problem with TB because badgers are routinley shot.
Ahhh, that life cycle again then, same as those pesky worms! Thanks for explaining all that Steve, I shall now take a look at that link Tarimoor has kindly put up for us.
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lozzibear
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15-12-2011, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
For me, it's about achieving a best balance of nature, if that means erradicating alien species like mink, I'm all for it, and trying to ensure native species can thrive in numbers that ensure a healthy population overall.
Originally Posted by x-clo-x View Post
But what about the rabbits? It's all about balance. The mink shouldn't of been there, but we introduced them, so we should help control the population do everything else can stay in balance. It might not be nice but it has to be done. My uncle is a gamekeeper and he has to cull a certain amount of deer each year to keep the population in balance.
Oh, yes coz drowning innocent animals, who didn't choose to be where they are, is such a humane way to do it...

Another aunt of mine stays in Uist, and they have a hedgehog problem. Again, people introduced them to the island to control slugs and snails... and their population has increased. Again, it is ground nesting birds that were affected, and their numbers decreased dramatically. They did a cull of the hedgehogs (which I was against), that has ended now (well, it was and as far as I know it hasn't started again) and now they relocate the hedgehogs from the island, to the mainland... A much better solution IMO.

I know that some of the damage people have done, cannot be undone... but IMO killing animals is never the answer.

I hate the belief that a lot of people have, that we have the right to have, and do, what we want, and the animals who get in the way, have to suffer.
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Velvetboxers
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15-12-2011, 06:04 PM
When all the Badgers are gone and the cattle are still contracting TB, they'll still be standing scratching their heads and wondering what else could be the cause..........!
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Tarimoor
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15-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
Oh, yes coz drowning innocent animals, who didn't choose to be where they are, is such a humane way to do it...

Another aunt of mine stays in Uist, and they have a hedgehog problem. Again, people introduced them to the island to control slugs and snails... and their population has increased. Again, it is ground nesting birds that were affected, and their numbers decreased dramatically. They did a cull of the hedgehogs (which I was against), that has ended now (well, it was and as far as I know it hasn't started again) and now they relocate the hedgehogs from the island, to the mainland... A much better solution IMO.

I know that some of the damage people have done, cannot be undone... but IMO killing animals is never the answer.

I hate the belief that a lot of people have, that we have the right to have, and do, what we want, and the animals who get in the way, have to suffer.
I never said drowning mink was humane, so don't put words in my mouth please. I do not, however, believe allowing them to carry on increasing in population, or even allowing them to live in an environment where they do not contribute as an effective part of the overal ecosystem, is the way forward. I do believe mink have to be culled, in the same way that we need to control and cull grey squirrel populations, and those of the American crayfish, and other alien species which damage our wildlife and ecosystem, and will continue to do so irreversibly, unless intervention takes place on our part.
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Moobli
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15-12-2011, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
They pass it onto cattle through their faeces/urine Helen which is deposited onto the grass which the cows eat.Then the cows deposit their waste onto the grass and inturn infects badgers digging in the soil-its a nether ending cycle.

Why are badgers the chosen carrier? They're not-deer carry it as well,but they have their population managed (deer stalking) so it never becomes a problem.Infact landowners are legally obliged to manage large deer numbers and if they dont the goverment will employ stalkers to cull herds...then bill the landowner!

Like i said previously,badgers have been protected since the early 70's and have no natural predator so their numbers have increased dramatically.

With regards about Canada-its a possibility that Canadian cattle are fed mostly grain inside sheds instead of grazing on grass or maybe they simply have never had a problem with TB because badgers are routinley shot.
I am sitting on the fence on this subject for now, as I don't really know enough about it. However, one thing I don't understand (and perhaps someone could explain?) is how Scotland have a TB free status and yet we have cattle grazing on grass and a large badger population.
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x-clo-x
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15-12-2011, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
Oh, yes coz drowning innocent animals, who didn't choose to be where they are, is such a humane way to do it...

Another aunt of mine stays in Uist, and they have a hedgehog problem. Again, people introduced them to the island to control slugs and snails... and their population has increased. Again, it is ground nesting birds that were affected, and their numbers decreased dramatically. They did a cull of the hedgehogs (which I was against), that has ended now (well, it was and as far as I know it hasn't started again) and now they relocate the hedgehogs from the island, to the mainland... A much better solution IMO.

I know that some of the damage people have done, cannot be undone... but IMO killing animals is never the answer.

I hate the belief that a lot of people have, that we have the right to have, and do, what we want, and the animals who get in the way, have to suffer.
i never said drowning an animal was a humane way to control a population so please dont make out i did!

we dont have a right to do whatever we want and let animals suffer... we have a RESPONSIBILITY to control populations that now because of us, cant control themselves.
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x-clo-x
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15-12-2011, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post
When all the Badgers are gone and the cattle are still contracting TB, they'll still be standing scratching their heads and wondering what else could be the cause..........!
i dont think people are pointing the blame completely at badgers. but they are the species that because there are so many of them, they spread it alot quicker and easier, unlke deer which are controlled by us anyway.
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Velvetboxers
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15-12-2011, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by x-clo-x View Post
i dont think people are pointing the blame completely at badgers. but they are the species that because there are so many of them, they spread it alot quicker and easier, unlke deer which are controlled by us anyway.
They are the species that are going to be slaughtered......
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x-clo-x
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15-12-2011, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post
They are the species that are going to be slaughtered......
they are being culled because there is too many of them.. keeping numbers down will help the spread of tb, it wont spread as quickly or as far.. deer are culled every year (my uncle is a gamekeeper and i've been out with him a couple of times) they have to hit a target number with them each year to get rid of, i imagine badgers will be the same too, they are only going to be allowed a target number, cant just kill a load of them willy nilly.
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Tarimoor
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15-12-2011, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post
They are the species that are going to be slaughtered......
They are one species to be culled, deer are already culled.
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