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colliemad
Dogsey Senior
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2006
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Female 
 
08-05-2006, 11:51 AM

weight gain - since starting raw feeding dogs have put on weight?

My dogs have now been on raw for about 6 weeks and they love it. I would never go back to the old way. The hardest thing I have found it remembering to get it out of their freezer! LOL

Now for the downside They have all put on about 2 kilo's in weight. deef was always a little too lean for my liking so when his weight first increased from 21 to 22 KG I was quite pleased. I then reduced his daily amount because I didn't want him to gain any more and he has He does look really good but he does agility so I want to keep him lean as there is nothing worse than an overweight agility dog. Kelly has mild displasia and a hip injury so extra weight is a no no for him too as it puts a strain on his hip, Sol on the other hand is still very lean and is maturing so I am not overly concerned about his weight, in fact I am happy he has put some on at last.

They gained the first kilo in the first 3 weeks and were being fed 3% of their body weight, I then reduced that to 2 1/2% and now I am having to reduce it again to 2%. I don't know what else to do if this doesn't work, I have only been giving these two tripe once a week and the same with lamb breast because of the fat and I know that tripe is good for getting weight on dogs. They are all very active, even Kelly with his hip. They have been swimming in the river this morning in the rain for about 30 minutes each before I had to drag them away I have been told that 10 minutes swimming is like a 5 mile run for a dog and as they are a fair way out swimming against the current I think they got a fair bit of exercise. We do the river walk about 3 times a week and I also take them out with the bike a couple of times a week (they run loose and I pedal) which gets them moving. I don't think I can increase their exercise, Sol and Deef also get a 1 1/2 hour one to one agility lesson between them each week which is hard work for all of us. I really want both of them to lose that extra kilo but obviously doing agility I want them to get enough energy going in as the competition atmosphere can be quite stressful and they tend to burn more off as a result. What else could I be doing to get the weight off?:smt100
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Paul G.
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08-05-2006, 02:47 PM
I have a very lean, keen and fit collie, the result of plenty of excercise and only enough food to keep her healthy. Slightly too little is perhaps better than too much. In the absence of any medical condition, excess weight is due to nothing more than excess calories i.e. too much food in relation to life style. The dog is descended from the wolf and is a hunter and scavenger. In the wild it works hard for its meal. There are no free handouts on the African savannah. It must earn its food and eat when it can. Some it uses to rebuild its depleted energy levels, any surplus is stored as fat until opportunity allows it to hunt again. That may be several days later. Unlike the majority of under-active and over-fed domestic dogs, you won't see a fat wild one. They may look thin but a hungry dog is fast and agile. Nature has built them that way in order to survive. In other words, I think you must cut back on the feeding, in calories if not in volume. Try mixing it. I use some raw plus dried. It also does no harm to feed 6 days instead of 7.
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Lucky Star
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08-05-2006, 03:05 PM
Have you checked the protein content of the diet? Maybe it is slightly high?
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colliemad
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08-05-2006, 03:36 PM
I have a very lean, keen and fit collie, the result of plenty of excercise and only enough food to keep her healthy.
As I said mine do get PLENTY of exercise and they are all very fit. Before he gained weight Deef was a very lean dog, there was no spare flesh on his ribs or over his hips so and extra kilo was not a problem. None of my dogs have ever been fat and in fact they are not fat now but I don't want them to get that way either. They are both what I would call a healthy PET weight, not the same for agility. They do anything up to 10 miles in a day depending whether I am biking or walking, average distance is 5/6 miles.

The dog is descended from the wolf and is a hunter and scavenger. In the wild it works hard for its meal. There are no free handouts on the African savannah. It must earn its food and eat when it can. Some it uses to rebuild its depleted energy levels, any surplus is stored as fat until opportunity allows it to hunt again. That may be several days later. Unlike the majority of under-active and over-fed domestic dogs, you won't see a fat wild one. They may look thin but a hungry dog is fast and agile. Nature has built them that way in order to survive.
domestic dogs are a LONG way from wolves and wild dogs and they do not behave in the same way. I do not believe in comparing the two as I think it causes more problems than it solves. I am sure a study was done and they came up with 2 breeds? (not sure) that were closest to wolves genetically and I know neither one was a border collie, I think one was a poodle?

In other words, I think you must cut back on the feeding, in calories if not in volume. Try mixing it. I use some raw plus dried. It also does no harm to feed 6 days instead of 7.
So how do I work out the calories of the food they are getting? I don't want to feed dried food, that's the point of giving them raw I kept their weight steady for years on dry food with no problems and I fed them 7 days. Raw feeding is very new to me and so I have yet to work out how much they should be getting but as I said I don't want them to get fat BEFORE I do anything. Both these dogs are neutered and this is the first time in their lives that weight gain has been an issue, in fact I have always had to be careful before that they don't LOSE weight
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colliemad
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08-05-2006, 03:38 PM
Have you checked the protein content of the diet? Maybe it is slightly high?

Do you know how can I find that out? I did have a link to a website that listed nutritional value of raw foods but it doesn't work any more, I don't know if the site has moved or been deleted
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Lucky Star
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08-05-2006, 04:21 PM
No - I just play by ear with Loki and adjust according to how he looks/how much exercise he is getting, etc. I would have thought your original starting percentage of 3 % would have been okay though, especially as varied. You could try substituting with more lean stuff, like chicken or fish but it doesn't sound as though you overdo fatty stuff anyway. Do you feed carbs/grains?

Exercisewise, we do roughly:

am - 10 min walk on lead first thing for toilet purposes.
am - 1-1.5 hr on/off lead, including running and fetching and jumping in stream .
pm - 1 hr (as before) later (varies with weather and light availability).
pm - One or two 10-20 mins on lead later again.

And Loki measures about 24 inches (I think!) to the shoulder, weighs about 58/60 lbs. He looks just fine, if on the lean side and is very quick and agile.

He eats - again roughly:

am - Half a NatureDiet/NaturesMenu OR scrambled egg OR sardines/veg - that kind of thing, but just a small amount.
afternoon - raw meaty chicken bone pieces such as wings etc., some fruit, small amount of veg for recretational chewing if I go out. OR a big turkey drumstick OR a red meaty RMB. The other day he had a marrowbone, something he only has very rarely.
pm - approx 400 g meat/fish with or without ground bone, two handfuls of veg, fish or flax seed oil, garlic. Sometimes he has potato or rice with it. Again it varies - depends on what else he has eaten or how much exercise he's had.

Treats include small pieces of home made meaty biscuits (made with chicken, fish, turkey, etc. egg and potato starch), raw eggs once or twice a week, fruit and veg, home made baked liver, etc. The occasional bit of a Burns Keltie. Left-over pieces of meat from my dinner. Tiny amount of organic ice-cream before bed - I read about this on an epilepsy site. Small amounts of yoghurt and tiny pieces of cheese.
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colliemad
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08-05-2006, 04:44 PM
No I don't feed any grains at all and they don't get any treats except roasted sardines in oils when they are training and very little of those. (mean mummy)

Deef is 23 1/2" tall and a powerfully built large boned collie, he currently weighs 22.8 kg which I think is about 50 pounds. I can feel his ribs without any effort but he has a nice covering all over, I don't think he is fat but I don't want him to be either Kelly is 22" tall and lighter build but he weighs 19.4kg (about 42 pounds) and he a has more covering Sol is a small dog, he only stands 19" tall and he is very light boned but he is very solidly built, he weighs 16.4kg (about 36 pounds) and is still a very lean dog but he is only 15 months and is maturing so I am not concerned with his weight as I think he has a lot of filling out to do yet, he is also still entire and is staying that way so i think wieght will be less of an issue for him.

I feed a good variety of meat; lamb breast, chicken carcases, rabbit and eventually fish. They also get liver, hearts, minced tripe, beef and chicken and when I remember to get them out of the freezer veggies! They gets eggs perhaps once a week if I remember them LOL

I remove the skin from the carcases for Kel and deef to try and reduce the fat a little bit and when they have lamb breast I split it so that they get perhaps 2/3 of the ribs and then they get chicken mince for their second meal whereas Sol will get the excess meat from the lamb breast AND his share of the ribs AND the chicken for his second meal. I trimmed the fat off some lambs hearts this morning for them to eat. I think they do look fine, they certainly aren't obese but I would rather prevent them getting fat than wait until it becomes and issue LOL I h ave never had this problem before, obviously they have never done so well on their food before bless 'em Mine are the only neutered dogs are our veterinary practice that have never been over weight, I would like to keep it that way
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jess
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09-05-2006, 02:30 PM
My advice is not too worry about the fat on meat, this is a mis-conception, it is excessive carbohydrates that pile on the pounds. I would cut down on the chicken to start with, it sounds like you are just feeding too much. It surprises, well quite frankly shocks some people how little I feed my dogs, yet they are not underweight, infact pup is starting to get a nice layer over her ribs (which like you I will not worry about until she is an adult, but will obviously keep an eye on). Commercial foods contain very little actual value, so you need to feed alot more. But by contrast feeding naturally or 'barf' means that as it's all 100% real food you don't need to give as much. Also you may have noticed that a lot less is passed out the other end, as alot more is absorbed in the system. So my advice to you is to just cut down over-all. One thing I love about raw feeding is that I can see my dogs change from week to week, so vary accordingly. I hope you see the results that you want, and remember carrots and apples make great treats instead of commercially availible biscuits! (although I do still give them, I just mentioned it as it may help you loose the weight you want).
best of luck.x.
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colliemad
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09-05-2006, 06:41 PM
I would cut down on the chicken to start with, it sounds like you are just feeding too much.
That's interesting, I'm sure the site I mentioned listed chicken has having the most energy value so I suppose it makes sense to reduce that, DURR! (well I am blonde!) Apart from the rain this morning it has been fairly warm here today and although they haven't had much to eat they don't seem to be too bothered by the fact so I am taking advantage of their lack of interest and waiting until they hassle me for food tonight, at the moment they are crashed on the floor.

Commercial foods contain very little actual value, so you need to feed alot more.
previously they were on Burns active and they didn't actually get a lot of that and did very well but I know what you mean, more often you have to shovel a fair bit of dry food in to get the required effect on the dog

[One thing I love about raw feeding is that I can see my dogs change from week to week, so vary accordingly.
how do you mean? Im knew they had put on weight the first time I took them and weighed them but I wasn't worried but TBH I didn't realise they had put any more on, I thought they might have done but I wasn't certain.


and remember carrots and apples make great treats instead of commercially availible biscuits! (although I do still give them, I just mentioned it as it may help you loose the weight you want).
I have to be careful with raw carrots as although they like them they sometimes give them dire rear, apples aren't a problem though so they have those anyway. They don't actually get any biscuit treats. I can't give deef food with certain additives in cos he gets dire rear and kelly begins to behave like the sterotype neurotic collie that can't sit still and likes to do the wall of death around your living room

At the moment their food is split into two smaller meals a day as that is how they have always been fed, if I reduce their food further they will end up with one meal, that could make my life interesting.............
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bessey112
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09-05-2006, 09:15 PM
Hi,
I can only really go by my Amy on this regarding raw feeding as my other 2 are rescues.1 is a pup & the other was very underweight when i got him so anyway....

I put Amy on raw back last july/august time so she has had a while to get used to it now I do remember the first few weeks she seemed to be gaining weight so like you i cut back on the meat thinking it would stop but it didnt. It was only when i took her to the vet for her boosters i found out at 16 months she was 48kg which is big even for a rotty
however as the vet pointed out yes Amy is big but.....it isnt fat its muscle building up on her.she still has a well defined waist & you can feel her ribs but she is solid so maybe thats whats happening with yours?

Also when i got Rock he had very bad legs,no muscle tone what so ever & would just collapse but these last few weeks ive noticed the same with him...he is getting really strong muscles now.Ive been told by the vet he isnt allowed to put to much weight on because of the previous neglect has effected his bones/joints etc but she is happy if its going to muscle if you know what i mean?

the only other thing would be to fill them up more on the vegetables,mine eat anything now that i put down

sarah
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