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Besoeker
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08-03-2017, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Legacy23 View Post
I gave him praise and treats when he ignored/sniffed/licked the kids hands when they pet him and a stern no with a leash correction when he put his teeth on them.
So he was playing and on the lead...................hmm
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Legacy23
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08-03-2017, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
So he was playing and on the lead...................hmm
Yes, he is dragging the lead around the house 100% of the time now until he is more responsible and I can trust not to get in trouble.
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Besoeker
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08-03-2017, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Honest answer....

No-one knows.

Pain thresholds are different not only between different species but also between individuals within that species.

But bottom line - if they are going to work - it is because they hurt.
I know my dog felt it.
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akitababy
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09-03-2017, 06:06 AM
It really depends on the dog owners, you need to think twice for it might create a much more negative result. This is just my opinion, I guess its not good to use a shock collar to punish a dog if there's another opinion. It really is not easy to train neither a puppy or an old dog it takes patience and time. There are absolutely a lot of cons in using it, including the fact that the owner doesn't have control on the intensity of shock that the animal will receive. Another thing it can build fear to your pets surrounding including you as the owner. At the end of the shock collars or invisible fence won't reinforce a good behavior, its better to give your dogs a treat and be hands on enough for them to have a well-manner.
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Besoeker
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09-03-2017, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by akitababy View Post
It really depends on the dog owners, you need to think twice for it might create a much more negative result. This is just my opinion, I guess its not good to use a shock collar to punish a dog if there's another opinion. It really is not easy to train neither a puppy or an old dog it takes patience and time. There are absolutely a lot of cons in using it, including the fact that the owner doesn't have control on the intensity of shock that the animal will receive. Another thing it can build fear to your pets surrounding including you as the owner. At the end of the shock collars or invisible fence won't reinforce a good behavior, its better to give your dogs a treat and be hands on enough for them to have a well-manner.
I agree with the treats as a reward for good behaviour.
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Legacy23
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09-03-2017, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Honest answer....

No-one knows.

Pain thresholds are different not only between different species but also between individuals within that species.

But bottom line - if they are going to work - it is because they hurt.
So, there are parts of this comment I agree with and parts I don't.

I agree that every individual is different and has a different pain threshold.

That being said there are different ways to use an e-collar. One is teaching the dog that following a given command will turn off the stim. And another is teaching the dog that the stim means to stop whatever it is they're doing right now.

No matter which way you use it the dog has to feel the stimulation, whether it be a shock or a vibration. But because the dog feels it doesn't mean that it hurts.

But my bottom line is, a dog can feel the sensation from the collar but that doesn't mean that what it feels is pain. Because once I turned it up to level 25 on myself I felt it but it was very far from pain. To put it in perspective it felt much milder than a static shock.
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Legacy23
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09-03-2017, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by akitababy View Post
It really depends on the dog owners, you need to think twice for it might create a much more negative result. This is just my opinion, I guess its not good to use a shock collar to punish a dog if there's another opinion. It really is not easy to train neither a puppy or an old dog it takes patience and time. There are absolutely a lot of cons in using it, including the fact that the owner doesn't have control on the intensity of shock that the animal will receive. Another thing it can build fear to your pets surrounding including you as the owner. At the end of the shock collars or invisible fence won't reinforce a good behavior, its better to give your dogs a treat and be hands on enough for them to have a well-manner.
I just wanted to highlight that part because it's incorrect. There are exactly 100 different levels on the collar I have and I can fine tune the intensity in very minute increments.

And to your second point, if you aren't giving your dog praise after using the collar once they've done what you asked, then you aren't using it correctly.
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Chris
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09-03-2017, 04:44 PM
For the dog to want the stim to stop or for the dog to want to avoid the shock illustrates that the dog, at the very least, finds it uncomfortable.

While you are training the dog how to turn off the shock or avoid it, it is both pleasanter and, in my opinion, a far better use of training to teach the dog what you actually want and reward the right action rather than punish the wrong one
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Legacy23
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09-03-2017, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
For the dog to want the stim to stop or for the dog to want to avoid the shock illustrates that the dog, at the very least, finds it uncomfortable.

While you are training the dog how to turn off the shock or avoid it, it is both pleasanter and, in my opinion, a far better use of training to teach the dog what you actually want and reward the right action rather than punish the wrong one
Chris, you seem like a very reasonable person and I agree with you.

The dog probably does find it uncomfortable. And while I agree it is more pleasant to teach with only positive methods I am not opposed to correcting a dog if they misbehave or disobey.
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Besoeker
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10-03-2017, 11:27 AM
Originally Posted by Legacy23 View Post
Chris, you seem like a very reasonable person and I agree with you.

The dog probably does find it uncomfortable. And while I agree it is more pleasant to teach with only positive methods I am not opposed to correcting a dog if they misbehave or disobey.
You mean punish?
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