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daisylynn
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03-12-2012, 03:15 AM

"Dominant dog" not acting dominant.

So I'm trying to adopt a male field spaniel(Angus) from a no-kill shelter. I've been told that he's a dominant dog by the kennel manager.... But I just don't see it.

He doesn't rush out ahead of me with doors.
He lets me roll him on his back, exposing his belly to me. Heck, he does this on his own. He'll flop down and roll in the grass, showing the world his belly.
He lets me take his food, he will sit and wait for his food if you as him to.
He follows every command fluidly.
He shares his bed. I can sit in his bed and he has no problems.

Am I missing something? I don't live with him, so I guess I'm basing it off of observations one day a week. He doesn't mark anything of mine, because he doesn't get a chance most of the time. But the thing is, I don't think he would, even if he did get the chance.
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Azz
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03-12-2012, 03:26 AM
I would ask them why they think he is 'dominant' - and if they are vague I would press them to be specific.

Btw, many of the things you mention have very little to do with dominance - I would recommend The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson as a good starting point for a modern approach to training dogs
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daisylynn
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03-12-2012, 03:39 AM
I have asked. She said that he bites if he isn't getting his way. I've never seen it. She also said that he charges his gate if you put him in without food. I've only seen it once. When I met him the first time, he charged the gate. But I think that had alot to do with meeting him in an enclosed space. Once he was out, he was great.
Could you give me behaviors of a dominant dog?
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Strangechilde
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03-12-2012, 04:17 AM
From what you have described, he doesn't sound dominant to me. A dominant dog will meet your eyes with a commanding gaze:not roll over on his back. A dominant dog will challenge you: with a look or a show of the teeth, or with a snap. A dominant dog will push you around, not settle quietly in his bed.

If I may offer my own opinion, this isn't a dominant dog. This is a bullied dog. Spaniels have a naturally strong temperament, but this dog is showing you that he's cool. He likes you. Give him gentle, consistent training, show him that you're no bully and no threat, and this will be the most awesome dog.
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I_am
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03-12-2012, 08:10 AM
Originally Posted by daisylynn View Post
She also said that he charges his gate if you put him in without food.
What, she means that as you go to put him back into the kennel, he tries to get out the gate as you shut it? Unless you throw food in after him?

If that is so, that is a dog that isnt happy being put in a kennel, thats all.
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Jackie
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03-12-2012, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by daisylynn View Post
I have asked. She said that he bites if he isn't getting his way. I've never seen it. She also said that he charges his gate if you put him in without food. I've only seen it once. When I met him the first time, he charged the gate. But I think that had alot to do with meeting him in an enclosed space. Once he was out, he was great.
Could you give me behaviors of a dominant dog?
Sounds to me like the kennel manager does nto really know what she is talking about.

To be honest, if you are happy with him, then take him on, the charging the gate and biting the hand, sound like simple bad manners, he probably has not been taught any.

I don`t buy into the dominant dog theory anyway, so anyone telling me a dog is dominant , I take with a pinch of salt .

Push her for an explanation, and if you don`t buy it, take him on.

A little consistency in his life will sort out any issues they think he has.
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Wysiwyg
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04-12-2012, 08:08 AM
I do so dislike the use of the word "dominance" to label a dog's behaviour, (or, the actual dog) and this is a prime example of it just causing more problems than it could ever solve

Not directed at you, Daisylynn, but at the kennel manager person.

Try a read of this as it might help to clarify some thoughts for you:



http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die

"What we are witnessing in so-called “dominant” dogs is natural behaviour that has been modified through learning. Sometimes this behaviour is competitive in nature, but the majority of so called “dominance-related” problems are simply dogs behaving in a way that conflicts with owners’ expectations."

"These conflicting behaviours are the result of the dog trying to secure something they know is going to have a positive emotional benefit – to facilitate a reward or avoid something unpleasant. How we deal with the way those emotions are satisfied determines our relationship with our dogs."

Also:http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/if-not-dominance.php

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php

Hope this helps. A friend of mine has field spaniels and won't have anything else now

Wys
x
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Chris
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04-12-2012, 08:23 AM
Unfortunately, it used to be that any dog who displayed any problem was labelled 'dominant'. This attitude still persists in some areas, but thankfully less and less these days.

To assess the dog properly, you'd need to get rid of the label, find out what the problem(s) is and then set to work on the whys and whens of how to help overcome it.

Labels do nothing but get in the way
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Strangechilde
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04-12-2012, 04:06 PM
I wholeheartedly agree.

I also have a serious problem with the perception some people seem to have of 'dominance' equalling 'aggression', with the concomitant notions that we have to lord it over our dogs, 'put them in their place', or some such. It is no such thing. Dogs do observe a social hierarchy, just as we do-- it's one of the reasons we've gotten on so well for millennia. But that hierarchy is built on competence and trust, not aggression and force. I have long been of the opinion that being a good alpha means making beta a desirable position (and we have to be alphas: dogs can't go shopping or operate rice cookers or drive to the vet's). Alphas are custodians, not tyrants. Too many people assume being 'dominant' means you have to be a tyrant. That's wrong. Sometimes the alphas flop over on their backs and let the puppies walk all over them. Alphas like to play, too. The alphas call the shots, but they look out for everyone. A wolf pack would not, could not, function if everyone was terrified of the wrath of the alphas, and it wouldn't survive if the alphas didn't go hunting and barf up their meal for the puppies. The hierarchy goes both ways.

Most 'dominance' issues, I feel, come from bad or nil training, bad or nil socialisation, and bad or nil understanding of dogness. How many horrid little monster terriers are there whose owners dress them up in Gucci and scoop them up with a 'Did a bad doggie hurt my poopsie woopsie widdikins?' every time a perfectly decent mutt looks at them? Exactly. And how many 'aggressive' dogs are actually just terrified, unable to predict what people are going to do, and desperate to be left alone? Exactly.

From what you've described, Angus sounds like a well-balanced dog who is sick to death of being in kennels and shunted around all the time. I'd bet that with a good, kind person (you) and a consistent routine he'd blossom. Sure, you can probably expect some nutzoid behaviour while he finds his feet (don't get me started; the Akita was hard work for over a year) but just being in a good situation, a proper home, with his own person, will do him a world of good. I hope you do take him on.

Oh-- and may I second Azz's recommendation of The Culture Clash? It is an excellent book!
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daisylynn
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05-12-2012, 04:52 AM
Thank you for the reply guys. This confirms what I thought, the kennel manager is full of crap. I don't agree with the dominance crap some trainers push either, the only reason I brought it up or worried about it is because the manager brought it up. I think Angus is a well balanced beautiful dog that would do SO well in my home, I just have to convince others of that.

Originally Posted by I_am View Post
What, she means that as you go to put him back into the kennel, he tries to get out the gate as you shut it? Unless you throw food in after him?

If that is so, that is a dog that isnt happy being put in a kennel, thats all.
I have a feeling she doesn't give him the proper out time and exersize. When I'm there, I'm chasing him around the yard (playing) and taking him for walks and he NEVER charges the gate with me. He's not happy being ignored.

Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Sounds to me like the kennel manager does nto really know what she is talking about.

To be honest, if you are happy with him, then take him on, the charging the gate and biting the hand, sound like simple bad manners, he probably has not been taught any.

I don`t buy into the dominant dog theory anyway, so anyone telling me a dog is dominant , I take with a pinch of salt .

Push her for an explanation, and if you don`t buy it, take him on.

A little consistency in his life will sort out any issues they think he has.
I'd love to take him. But there are some issues. The kennel manager isn't convinced Angus would get along well with my nephew and I don't have a job to support Angus at the moment. I agree, the kennel manager doesn't know what she's talking about.

Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Hope this helps. A friend of mine has field spaniels and won't have anything else now

Wys
x
It did help. Thank you so much. If Angus is the standard for his breed, I would LOVE to have a million like him. He's such a smart and sweet boy.
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