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Luthien
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28-10-2011, 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Of COURSE it depends on the "individual" but the reasons breed standards exist is to define the main characteristics of them and thus their outlook on life.

For example the Weimaraner standard says "Hunting ability of paramount importance" this shoudl give someone a bit of a clue about what they like doing best.

There are "atypical" individuals in ALL breeds but for those which are bred to fulfil a specific WORK purpose, they are either culled (foxhounds) or split (like GSD, Labs, Spaniels etc) into show v work lines.

In the old days if a dog did not fulfil its function it was removed from the gene pool, one way or another.

Nowadays where other qualities are deemed more important (by some) this is not necessarily so and of course many people do not want nor could cope with a work bred specimen of their breed of choice (assuming it had a work related purpose of course).
But, in what way does that equate to a dog being "handler dependant"?
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smokeybear
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28-10-2011, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Luthien View Post
But, in what way does that equate to a dog being "handler dependant"?
It does not, a Weimaraner is NOT handler dependent!
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Luthien
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28-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
It does not, a Weimaraner is NOT handler dependent!
Then, may I ask why you mentioned one?

And what would be your reply to the original question?
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marley123
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28-10-2011, 08:30 PM
my terriers are very dependant on me, but i have trained them to take constant commands when working so i treat them more like gun dogs than rat dogs lol
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ClaireandDaisy
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28-10-2011, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by marley123 View Post
my terriers are very dependant on me, but i have trained them to take constant commands when working so i treat them more like gun dogs than rat dogs lol
I can`t help feeling this has more to do with training than breed......
My GSP mooches off and does his own thing because I don`t actually interact that much with him - he doesn`t retrieve and has the attention span of a gnat if it`s not a pheasant so there`s no point.
One the other hand, Daisy (and now Prince) are constantly checking me and looking to me. But this is mostly because I play Ballie with them when out, and use this play as a way to train.
I often see GSDs who basically wander along with owners in tow.
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smokeybear
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28-10-2011, 09:15 PM
I think that the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Have a look at the most successful breeds used in

Assistance programmes
Obedience
Working Trials
Services


And then look at the breed used in

pest control
hunting


They most successful dogs in the first group are not the most successful in the latter.

You need handler dependent dogs for the first group, dogs which are NOT handler dependent for the latter.

These are the facts of life..............

It is pointless comparing pet dogs as many owners are just appendages which the dogs pull along
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muttzrule
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30-10-2011, 06:51 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
I think that the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Have a look at the most successful breeds used in

Assistance programmes
Obedience
Working Trials
Services


And then look at the breed used in

pest control
hunting


They most successful dogs in the first group are not the most successful in the latter.

You need handler dependent dogs for the first group, dogs which are NOT handler dependent for the latter.


These are the facts of life..............

It is pointless comparing pet dogs as many owners are just appendages which the dogs pull along
I completely agree with the bold part, very well put, easy to understand, and answers the OP question perfectly.

but what is up with that last statement? I'm trying to find a way NOT to be offended by that. Are you saying that if we don't work our dogs we have no handler relationship of any sort?
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BangKaew
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30-10-2011, 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
What are we defining as "handler dependent"? Surely it depends on the individual?
I was going to say that. Is it also whether the dog respects the handler, thinks they mean business or not?


In the old days if a dog did not fulfil its function it was removed from the gene pool, one way or another.
Like in Thailand, any dog, apart from the Thai Ridgeback which were bred to kill snakes, that showed any prey drive was killed - because rural homes all have chickens. So you might have guessed that I got one of the few with a prey drive! After two chickens he has killed we now have to avoid half the routes we once went.
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