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peedie
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12-01-2012, 05:01 PM

Obedience- hand signals at a distance training help please

Jago can do hand signals close to me (sit, down and stand) but when I try to do it at a distance he uses each 'move' to gradually inch closer and closer to me. I need to get him cantilevering backwards for each command. At the moment I am using a broom handle as a barrier which is working to make him realise he needs to move backwards into position but when I move it he creeps forward again. Any tips please ?
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one.eyed.dog
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12-01-2012, 05:21 PM
I blow the stop whistle then point arm in direction I want dog to go then walk that way. If dog near enough I shout "sway" short for this way. Right arm to go right left arm to etc etc
Trouble with Lottie is I swear she's phscic as she always seems to know what I'm on about and half the stuff we do I can't remember even training it. doG help me with the next one as I'm blowed half the time how I trained this one.
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WhichPets
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12-01-2012, 06:21 PM
I think it is kikopup on youtube who suggests throwing the food reward BEHIND the dog helps them to learn to stay back. Dont know if this helps or not!
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ClaireandDaisy
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12-01-2012, 07:20 PM
I would go back to basic training. If the dog creeps from a foot away, do a sequence where you take a step forward each time. Reward at the end of a sequence, not each move.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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12-01-2012, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by WhichPets View Post
I think it is kikopup on youtube who suggests throwing the food reward BEHIND the dog helps them to learn to stay back. Dont know if this helps or not!
Ahh yes I think I remember that one

also she says to make sure that you teach the sit, down and stand with the front feet moving and the back feet staying in the same place

I would prob use a mat or something to teach a dog to be in the same place
You take a tiny step further back each time, if the dog moves put them back and make it easier for them
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smokeybear
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12-01-2012, 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
also she says to make sure that you teach the sit, down and stand with the front feet moving and the back feet staying in the same place
I would like to see this as IME of training this it is absolutely physically impossible for a dog to move from a sit or a down into a stand for example without moving the back legs! And if you are looking at distance control or positions on the move the dog must not move forward.

It is the FRONT feet that do not move, and it is the back feet that do.

Anyway your question is not about hand signals is it? It is about the dog not being taught the exercise correctly.

It matters not if you use verbal or body signals for DC or positions on the move.

You have to be very clear in what you want and the incremental steps you need to achieve your objective.

I clicker train the positions and it is extremely clear what is wanted.

You can use barriers, steps, stairs, fences, tables etc to assist (I do not bother) but if you DO use them you need to determine if the dog fully understands their purpose.

Secondly if a dog will not do this NEXT to you it will not do it far away. So you must ensure that you are not putting too many variables in at the same time.

Thirdly, you have to remember that the actions a dog makes to go from a stand into a sit are different from those to move from a down into a sit.

It also helps that once you DO have the movements that you have a plan of action so that you do not inadvertently train some sequences more often then others.

ABACAB etc

If you use words, it helps for them to be very different (which is why for example a lot of people use BACK instead of STAND to avoid the dog confusing the S of STAND with the S of SIT.

You will know if the dog is trained in the actual movements if the dog will do it in any orienation to you or out of sight, eg next to you (right and left) behind you and in front of you.

Mirrors are very useful for this.

Top tip

If you want to move from a barrier but still have something visible for YOU to determine if there has been any forward movement, use water spray on dry cement, or powdered chalk on grass etc.

HTH
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peedie
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12-01-2012, 08:38 PM
Brilliant, thanks all. He does know the hand signals and is very good at recognising them but I think I need to start near the beginning again. I also ask for back legs to move and front legs to stay still, or at least, that is what I would like him to do and will retrain the hand signals for. Thank you very much everyone, lots of useful tips! I'll go and look up that kikopup video too
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WhichPets
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12-01-2012, 08:44 PM
Yes the video is useful.
I think it is the one using a place mat.
First she teaches the dog to sit, lie, stand on the mat for a reward. That way when you come to build distance the dog knows they must stay on the mat in order to receive the reward before phasing it out.

Let me know if you can't find the video and I'll link it..I would now but I'm on my phone so it's tricky! Good luck
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peedie
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12-01-2012, 09:54 PM
Thank you Video looks good, I'll definitely give that a go! I love Kikopup, she is amazing
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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12-01-2012, 10:02 PM
SB, I said FEET not legs
and of course it is not impossible, you can choose for the front feet to be still or the back feet to be still
One of my dogs does one, the other does the other
Basically if you are luring it is more likely that the front feet will move into position and the back feet stay still
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