Please help me stop Ben barking!

Ben has always been a dog who likes the sound of his own voice, but usually it's fairly restrained. In the last couple of weeks it's got worse and worse.
We've just been coping because he's had phases of this through his 'teenage' months which have passed. They're almost 14 months now so we know it's not out of the question to still be experiencing these adolescent phases but I'm at the end of my tether! I've shouted a couple of times which I feel terrible about - I don't want to have to shout to get him to stop.
If anyone has any advice I would be very very grateful.

when is he barking and what is he barking at

Just in the house. Bark bark bark bark bark bark bark.

It doesn't seem to be when he wants something - he generally doesn't bark unles he's desperate to go in the garden but they're usually let out often enought that he doesn't need to do that. He's fed around the same times and rarely barks for his dinner unless we're running a bit late.

We're doing loads to try and stimulate them at the moment with training, tug of war, runs in the park with ball so I don't think it's boredom, but he does tend to do it more just before he crashes out in a really deep sleep.

This must be the 4th or 5th yucky phase they've had - Max gets a little agressive which we're seeing a behaviourist for but that's another story. Anyway, each time this has happened they don't seem to settle at their usual times and spend more of the day running around. Could it be anythign to do with tiredness?

He's also getting barky at every little noise outside. There are some things he will always bark at and other things that he's used to but at the moment it's quite literally everything.

It puts us on edge more because we're in a terraced house. I don't want to have to apologise to the neighbours every 5 minutes!

Touch wood they seem to have settled a little now....

You could try a DAP diffuser in the house to calm him.
What is he fed? Some dogfoods make dogs hyper.
I find it is easier to train an alternative behaviour than to teach `no` - so maybe you could teach him to go to his bed or fetch his toy when he starts barking?
It may be that he`s overtired as well. Maybe give him quieter games - teach a stay or down as a game rather than a dashing about exciting one? Or at least wind the games down - the same as you`d do before putting a child to bed. Maybe a gentle grooming session would calm him?

ah, so over stimluted over aroused adolescent border collie just offered winding up activities then

how about some calming mind work like clicker, obedience sessions when out and about or tracking or search games for food or toys in the house or fields

or nina ottosen doggy puzzles?

We used to use DAP collars with him but stopped a few months ago and he was fine. Maybe we need to get another one. We haven't tried the diffusers but I guess that would keep Max a little more calm as well.
He's on James Wellbeloved but I don't think it's a food issue because this isn't constant behaviour. He's been on it since January.
If they have a hyper phase in the evenings we tend do get them to lie down and put a treat on the floor and make them wait for it. It definitely helps and I'm wondering if we should do it a little more in the day as well.
I htink you're right about the quieter games, but unfortunately grooming is a work in progress with him so we don't oush it but he's getting better at accepting it. We have a mitt with very soft rubber bristles which he will accept, but he doesn't like it enough yet to relax.

Thanks for your ideas, we really seem to have hit a brick wall!

Krusewalker - When you put it like that it seems so obvious!!!
I guess we've just been focusing on trying to tire him out rather than calming him. Sometimes it's hard to think rationally with all that noise!
NEither of the dogs will focus on obedience when we're out and about. I mean, they will do recalls, chase balls etc but I don't know how to change their focus onto me and they're not interested in food when we're out.
I really want to try the puzzles but they're quite expensive. Do you know the best place to get them from?

hiya

would just google for the toys

re food, stop feeding dogs in the bowls.

try kongs and scatter feeding in the garden and holding back half the food for the walks, with added sausages!

re the focus upon you when doing recall...is the toy the reward?
if so, is the toy the same used indoors?
in fact, do they have free access to toys all the time?

if yes to these, then dont leave toys out and the toy used for training out and about should never be used for anything else.
and if you play with toys at home anyway, play with them with the dog.

get them into clicker...clicker is ideal for brainiac collies!

and sometimes do stuff and take them out for separate sessions so they can tune into you instead of each other

OK, will give it a go! Thanks

With recall we practise in the house and garden with food ttreats and when we're out they just do it - if it's when we're in the field then yes, the ball would be the reward, but we don't use the same balls in the house.

The only toys they have out most of the time are Nylabones. Otherwise we choose when they play and always play with them.

We're working on the separation. I know it's so important but we can't yet leave one dog in the house alone, we can only do it when we're both around which can be tough.

Can you buy books on clicker training? Our current trainer doesn't do clicker - not in classes anyway. I know that collie's respond really well to it, but I'm not really sure where to start.

Thank you so much for your advice!

sounds like alot of great advice

when training have you tried to train the quiet command, i did this with ty although i admit it backfired on me a little bit as ty isnt a dog that barks unless he is outside playing chase with a dog he cant catch so i first had to teach him to speak, well i guess you could say the speak command backfired on me as if you have a treat in your hand he will speak first before you give him a command. oooopps my bad

anyway my point is if you can teach the dogs the quiet command then when they are barking all you should have to do is say quiet and when they are reward them for it

the first thing to do is to teach the dog to speak, then reward him after he does and once you have mastered this then introduce the quiet command by getting your dog to speak and when the dog stops barking say quiet then treat, there are a few different ways to teach the dog the quiet command, the above is what i did