No not a Fasist, just someone who feel that suggesting subjecting 'stims' on a dog that he has never met who has a longstanding medical condition that requires analgesia and advising them to buy an ecollar is not acceptable in my opinion. I am more than happy to listen to others opinions and am open minded enough to accept differing ideas to my own but as I happen to believe using an ecollar as a form of abuse then of course I wish AP was trolling for attention rather than claiming to be a dog trainer and giving out advise.

I`m not lame, sweetie. And you`d be amazed at the world views I can handle.
Don`t make assumptions about me because you have a fellow feeling for `Adam`.
I don`t think he is a trainer because he doesn`t know anything about training, because he has never posted about his own (supposed) dogs or experience, and because his literacy level is far below what one would expect from one who claims to have a Degree.
The definition of a troll is below - I defy anyone to say `Adam` doesn`t fit the bill

That's about the gist of it - it was a one off in the sense that things have been good for about a year, but I'll just state again that in the past we've had problems (see earlier).

Medical Conditions: I was first shown how to use a long line with one of our other dogs (Ella). Whilst using this to teach recall, I once stdod on it to stop her running off. The result of this was that she swun around by her neck. Not wishing to repeat this I bought a full body harness.

I used this on Locky. Stopping him from belting off resulted in him howling in pain and limping - we hadn't discovered the loose shoulder ligaments as yet. That's just an example of a safe method causing the dog harm.

On another occaision, a dog ran towards him, he set off towards it but was wearing the long line. It got wrapped around my knee and I was on crutches for about 6 weeks, followed by another month or so before I could walk properly. That's just an example of a safe method causing me harm!

It's more than just one Kruse - people are really getting fed up with reading the same stuff and the same arguments in more than one place.

I do own/have used a muzzle. It was through using the muzzle that I managed to start introducing Locky to other dogs with the confidence that he could do no harm, which increased my confidence in him to the point that I felt I didn't need to use a muzzle.

I screwed up the other day, he wasn't introduced to the dog (which was on lead). I'll have to dig it out and start using it again.

I just use them on the neck, point of contact training (as its called) is fine but generally I don't feel its needed for most dogs, also the dog has to get used to wearing a collar around its waist.

Re my offer.
BM, You feel e collar is a dangerouse technique I do not.
WW. Its fairly simple to caoch a reasonable intelligent perosn in the basics of a simple technique if you know what your doing. Michael obviously has good skills with the dog/good dog knowledge and if not I would have talked them through the excat body language ect to be aware of.
The technique I advise involves working at critical distance ect so safety would be fine.
As you rightly point out stim may need to go up as arousal level increase, this is simpler to work with than you think tbh.
1, Train the behaviour at low arousal level with working level.
2. Increase distractions gradually
3. When distractions go up if dog ignores a command/stim up the stim gradually (press button/turn dial) while repeating the command.

Adam

I screwed up the other day, so at the risk of leaving myself open to criticism:

If where I live is typical of the rest of the UK, outside of forums, people don't care about training. If I may quote you from another thread:

One of the area's I walk has easy car access. Owners quite literally open their doors and let the dogs go. I know what you're going to say, go to other places at other times. It was about 7:00 am the other morning.

This is getting beyond a joke. I haven't been called a girl since before I left primary school some 35 years ago!

michael m.

i feel for you i do.
putting aside the fact that this was an unforceable brief setback,and the fact you didnt even see the westie..
...do you think with your dogs medical conditions..a,that its right to use an 'electric shock'' to get a desired effect you want
b,do you not think that because of his medical conditions he could be more 'vocal' so he ensures he gets the warning in before he is hurt

woudnt a muzzle be the least painfull option?

Sorry Michael M.

Adam