i dont like what that stan guy wrote. it does not take a nutrionalist of 'scientific' studies for humans to figure out what we eat, nor do we eat a DAILY balanced diet. however we are surviving, and feeding our kids. why does he not think that the average person cannot feed a dog? nowadays we have become so used to thinking interms of 'them' (men in lab coats) and us (average person that knows nothing). we have become used to believing them, over our GUT instinct. sometimes we are nudged in the right direction (as i was) and then we can begin to think for ourselves again. i question anyone who advocates processed pet food. its a money making cattle market, where the cheapest most putrid ingredients are sold for profit. there is no disputing that. the evidence we do have is that dogs are dieing younger and increases degenerative diseases and cancers. Frankly it scares me that the general public can be taken in by scaremongering, and not listen to their own good common sense.

Of course you don't Jess because if you did you would be admitting to an error in feeding your dog BARF. Perhaps it will be helpful if you followed this thread. For those still not sure about raw food diets have a look at http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/inde...20194&st=0

and follow the tragic story of a boxer that is currently going through the ill effects of neospora from beef.

Can someone please tell me the difference of meat 60 years ago and Today. I will give you a clue agrochemicals and additives.

Stan

Jenny it is a pity you didn't post my answer to these silly URLs on my own forum you have posted most of my others I notice. Perhaps it didn't suit your argument and unsubstantiated claims?

This was my answer.

Stan

Sorry Jenny

Don't agree with you. These claims are incorrect. I have examined the pet food industry in depth the majority of these sites are run by animal rights extremists and the disinformation they provide is just that, disinformation. These people have a bee in their bonnets about industry in general not just the pet food industry, many have anarchistic tendencies. Just read some of their comments they suggest turning your pet into a Vegan, bloody lunatics.

You cannot slap a load of URLs and say that is proof that these companies have abused animals. These are the same people that throw staves at horses and strew the ground with glass in front of the hounds on hunts then claim to have animal welfare at heart.

The one they really have a go at as you have is Proctor and Gamble yet they have won awards since taking over Eukanuba and Iams for there caring and gentle methods of food testing just look at the organisations that oversee and confirm that nothing untoward is happening. I have concerns that people are suggesting that these URLs and sites prove an abuse. They do not they are out of date and disingenuous. I have been doing some research of my own may I suggest you visit this site run by Iams and Proctor and Gamble where it categorically proves, that the latest rumours and accusations are totally untrue. You may also wish to read the whole list of organisations supporting this statement.
http://www.iamstruth.com/iamstruth/e..._US&pti=HP

My investigation shows that Iams became a boycott target after P&G bought the pet food maker in September 1999--but the boycott has been waged chiefly with information about invasive and terminal research done while Iams was owned by Clay Mathile, who in 1982 bought Iams from Paul Iams, who founded Iams in 1946.

Several of the most controversial studies were done by Iams researcher Dan Carey, DVM, between 1987 and 1995, but were not described in veterinary journals until after P&G acquired Iams P&G actually encouraged the companies scientists to publish their work ie blue the whistle on what had been happening so that other companies would not feel that they had to do similar research and studies.

P&G has now developed a noninvasive, non-lethal alternative to get the information they were seeking.

Don't believe everything you hear from the likes of PETA and ALF.

I personally use Royal Canin I have tried and respect Eukanuba and have also used James Wellbeloved all quality foods and all created without torturing and abusing the test animals.

Stan

blimey i am now well confused i just dont know what to believ anymore

thats why i brought up stans responses to my questions because we r now hearing 2 completely different sides to it and its getting confusing to say the least

ooh i have brain ache its a good job i have the week off work.

sorry for those reading this again, but it applies here too.

when you say 'manage fine' thordell, there is managing, and there is thriving. we know pet foods cause health problems and probably the dogs arent living as long as they should be (we consider tham old at 10)

its seem to me as if the 'doglistener' is listening to only what he wants to hear....sweeping raw feeding aside as a 'fad' thats not 'scienfically correct' since when are our own diets scientifically correct?!
He is entitled to his opinion, but when that opinion is scaring others from making their own choices (noone on his forum, as i have seen, feeds anything but what he endorses) people like that convince others that we need to have scientists weigh out the correct formula to feed our dogs, (when they dont know much more than we do) and have us pay for the priviledge. what is factual is that pet food is the cause of peridontal disease.... prematuring ageing in dogs... and probably played a big role in the promoting of degenerative diseases.
he goes on to tell me i disagree with his 'findings', because i am scared what damaged i have already caused my dogs. Dr Billinghurst may not have been a nutrionist (neither am i... should i just eat ready meals because i am not sure, of the exact quantities to feed myself) but he went AGAINST the vet assocaiton, risking his livelyhood because of what he believed in. yes he has sold many books but good on him. in the beginning he put his career in jeopardy because of the concern of all the sick dogs he was seeing - being fed commerical pet food. If anything he should be praised for thinking outside the box and going against conventional thinking.


Health is more important than money

Your damn right health is more important than money.

Perhaps you should look again at the comments from the BARF enthusiasts including your own, saying that commercial dried food is Putrid meat and non human grade and that it made up of contaminated food.

That isn't scare mongering then? Perhaps you can ask Billinghurst where he got his data from. He states he studied wild animals including Woles and Wild Dogs yet when asked how and where he was unable to answer perhaps you could answer for him?

Stan

quote:
Perhaps you should look again at the comments from the BARF enthusiasts including your own, saying that commercial dried food is Putrid meat and non human grade and that it made up of contaminated food.


Catherine O'Driscoll for Canine Health Concern which promotes natural feeding, has research into this for over 14 years. she gives talks all over the world at venues with vets. she has met both billinghurst and tom lonsdale, and loves them both for what they have made the world see, putting both their careers on the line. Catherine has gone undercover into the dog industry (food, vaccines and medication) and found out the most horrific things.
As for the food, the multi million dollar companies send out scouts throughout the world looking for waste and cheap sources of protein to put into their dog food. Catherine went down to the big fish industries that guts the fish, all the waste goes into a big skip to ship off to the pet food industry. she watched as the men threw in their fag ends, lunch, wrappers, and other general 'waste'. you would think this gets 'sorted' at its end point, not so. out of date supermarket produce, together with their cellophane wrappers, roadkill, dead zoo animals, all gets piled into the big vats, it takes time to sort through and pull out things that arent suitable, but time is money, and the unsuitable is a 'negligble' amount. animals that are put to sleep at the vets and not taken home for burial, get shipped off as 'protein', together with their flea collars, and the drugs inside that euthanized them. this is all boiled to such high degrees, that no enzymes survive. there is nothing valuable in the end product. they can survive on it, but can they thrive?
the end point when kibbles get sprayed with oils, to make them 'taste' better to dogs, this oil is sourced from the fast food industry. huge big drums full of cooked oils left for months on end outside in extreme temps is picked up and sent off to the pet food industry. cooked rancid oils are carcinogenic (known to cause cancer). when i buy cod liver and evening primrose oils for the dogs, i am told to keep them cold, and out of direct sunlight (in the fridge) compare that to what you give your dogs.
you cant escape it, you dont know what the grain of kibble consists of. your 'science' means nothing when it consists of comparing a piece of cardboard kibble to a piece of fresh meat. it may contain drugs and additives that we cannot control. but i can guarantee you its got more life in it than a million bags of the food you endorse.

I am sorry to have to ask this but are you on medication? Are you aware of the controls in this country regarding the manafacture of dog food. Are you aware of the restrictions on what goes into dried food especially the quality enf of the market which is the ones I recommend. Are you aware that road kills, zoo animals and vet euthanised animals are forbidden any idea why? simply because the lethal fluid stays in the body and cooking does not remove it. Where in hells name do you get this load of tosh from. Some deranged lunatic in the CHC I suppose

I also don't give a tinkers toss for Cathrine O'Driscoll or the CHC which is a self serving natural health "Barf" forum set up to primarily hawk her books, which must be excellent because they are all out of print.

Am I supposed to be impressed that she has met Bilinghurst and Lonsdale? and that she loves them both for bringing the RAW diet into poor grey peoples life. I really think you should get one of the robes and a soap box for you messianic rantings and missionary zeal. Are you paid for your work with CHC?


I note that she has not produced any scientific studies or even a book on the nasty dog food manafacturers probably didn't want to be sued to hell. So where is this research she has done for 14 years? Didn't see any and what scientific background is she from?

Bet she hasn't one.

By the way I do not endorse food I recommend it the difference being that endorsements means I get paid for doing it.

Stan