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View Poll Results: Poll - Do you agree you should be alpha male over your dog?
Yes 70 39.33%
No 71 39.89%
Other, please specify 37 20.79%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Swifty
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28-08-2016, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Dogs are domesticated wolves - through DNA ALL modern domesticated dogs can be traced back to 3 bitch wolves.

Dogs are very different from their wild ancestors in behavioural terms, but in physical terms they are virtually identical. They can freely breed. I fostered an F1 wolf cross a few years ago - aged 9 weeks. He lived with us quite happily, with our utonagan Tai keeping a watchful eye over him. We have many videos and photographs of them horsing around together - Tai was definitely the boss!!

Unless you want to argue with the Smythsonian Institute, dogs have been reclassified as canus lupus familiaris - in other words domesticated wolves. It may have happened tens of thousands of years ago, but all domesticated dogs still bear those wolf genes traced back through the mitochondrial dna to those 3 wolf bitches.
Interesting, you did forget to mention what breed of dog your wolf was bred too, or where you got a purebred 100 percent wild wolf to do this cross in the first place? So if Tai was actually the boss of a cross to an already hybrid wolf cross that the pup was no more that 25 percent wolf at best. That said if a gentle dog such as husky was used the dominance has no meaning. You also forgot to mention that this cross dog that you had was neutered as it would need to be to be acceptable in the first place and perhaps called for by legality as well. So please stop with this rambling about how your neutered kitten is not dominant, as he has no balls to run the show.

As for 3 wolves mothering all modern dogs this is nonsense, because they would not have lived together at the same time thus one wolf would have a litter alone, and all that could come of this are unhealthy inbred cripples.

Study a little better please
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Chris
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28-08-2016, 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Seriously any study that challenges dominance or alpha status as being real as it applies to wolf pack structure, is really not worth reading.

This is like saying in line one that wolves and humans were put on the earth by God in exactly their present form. Clearly some people actually believe this, and it is just as clear that they are not worth my time to read as these people completely ignore that evolution in some form is real.
The saying 'we live and learn' is a good one. It only applies though if we are actually willing to apply it.

Not allowing our beliefs to be challenged would have kept us in the dark ages.
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Swifty
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28-08-2016, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
The saying 'we live and learn' is a good one. It only applies though if we are actually willing to apply it.

Not allowing our beliefs to be challenged would have kept us in the dark ages.
Again you may feel free to challenge the dominant alpha status of the lead wolf in an American pack by approaching him at any time, leave a last will and testament though. People who are saying that dominance and alpha status in wolves is not real are studying neutered dogs and have no clue how clueless they are or how fast they would be lunch to an alpha wolf in his territory.
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Chris
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28-08-2016, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Again you may feel free to challenge the dominant alpha status of the lead wolf in an American pack by approaching him at any time, leave a last will and testament though. People who are saying that dominance and alpha status in wolves is not real are studying neutered dogs and have no clue how clueless they are or how fast they would be lunch to an alpha wolf in his territory.
I'm confused again. I thought you were talking about a wolf pack, not a human entering a wolf pack.
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Gnasher
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29-08-2016, 08:24 AM
Neither Tai nor Bruce were neutered - you really do have an incredibly high level of ignorance where it comes to canines.

Bruce was far higher than 25% - his mother was pure wolf, his father was a Czech Wolf Dog - making him an F1 with considerably more wolf in him than 25 per cent wolf content. The wolf was of course not wild - sadly we don't have wild wolves any longer in the UK!
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Gnasher
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29-08-2016, 08:27 AM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Again you may feel free to challenge the dominant alpha status of the lead wolf in an American pack by approaching him at any time, leave a last will and testament though. People who are saying that dominance and alpha status in wolves is not real are studying neutered dogs and have no clue how clueless they are or how fast they would be lunch to an alpha wolf in his territory.
You spout the most utter load of rubbish. You would be extremely unlikely to get anywhere close to a wild wolf in the States - they keep well away from man for a very good reason. Unless you cornered or trapped a wild wolf, you would be at no risk whatsoever from any wild wolf, alpha or not.
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Gnasher
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29-08-2016, 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Interesting, you did forget to mention what breed of dog your wolf was bred too, or where you got a purebred 100 percent wild wolf to do this cross in the first place? So if Tai was actually the boss of a cross to an already hybrid wolf cross that the pup was no more that 25 percent wolf at best. That said if a gentle dog such as husky was used the dominance has no meaning. You also forgot to mention that this cross dog that you had was neutered as it would need to be to be acceptable in the first place and perhaps called for by legality as well. So please stop with this rambling about how your neutered kitten is not dominant, as he has no balls to run the show.

As for 3 wolves mothering all modern dogs this is nonsense, because they would not have lived together at the same time thus one wolf would have a litter alone, and all that could come of this are unhealthy inbred cripples.

Study a little better please
Links to info re origins of dogs:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2498669.stm
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Gnasher
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29-08-2016, 10:49 AM
And another link to research done in Sweden:

You will need to type the following into your search engine to bring up the .pdf file to click on:

mtDNA Studies of the Origin of Dogs - Cold Spring Harbor Monograph Archive
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chlosmum
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29-08-2016, 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Links to info re origins of dogs:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2498669.stm
I think you'll find according to research which was published earlier this year there's good reason to believe that dogs have been domesticated twice, not once as previously thought. Once in Asia and once in Europe or the Near East.
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shropshiregirl
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08-10-2016, 05:56 PM
I don't know about a couple of trainers bringing up the notion of being "pack leader" but with my two little terrors aged 19 weeks, I am the one who bathes them, grooms them, cleans their eyes, their ears, their bacKsides as well on the odd occasion, clip their nails, walk them, feed them, clean up after them, dispose of their poo and wash and disinfect the odd "accident" when they get over-excited when playing. I am the one who took them to doggy socialising classes and dog training in order to be assured that they will be well behaved pooches whilst out for their daily walk. They look to me for reassurance when out walking as there are still many sights and sounds they are still unused to and unsure of.
Just as their mother would do if they were in the pack, they get punished when naughty,(a stern telling off seems to do the trick every time).

Of course I am the pack leader. They need a pack leader whilst growing up. I love them dearly and assume they love me unconditionally but If I didn't control them I would no doubt end up with two very naughty, unruly little dogs.

Call it what you may but I am in charge and they know it!
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