If you are trhinking YOUR sort of collar of the battery operated kind then NO and NO WAY.

Taken from guild lines book.

I would have put Check chains under the slip lead category.

Too logical an argument

I did not check back to see if anyone had referred to the trainers guildline book.
But yes - seems logical to me - obviously not to others.

Never as far as I am concerned.

Fleck has a lovely hemp collar. He's got sensitive skin and we have to be really careful with him.

Cant understand how people can be so harsh with their dogs.

See what you think. We get ours from

https://www.wikaniko.com/wexec/order.exe/list?s_cat=31

Not to seem cynical...but in 6 posts you appear to have mentioned this company 4 times....you don't happen to work for them do you?

Hi Dobermann,

My dog was not allowed a tug toy, he was not allowed anything that squeaked, he was not allowed a ball and he wasnt particularly food motivated for the training side either. Why? because of his BREED!

When you say the above who disallowed these, you or the trainer?

Play can mean a myriad of things, so you can tug, play ball, tickle your dog's tum etc etc etc a good trainer will give those people whose dogs are not motivated by toys or food some scenarios to try, a good examiner will too.

also because of his neck shape I refused to have him walk in there practically choking on the stupid fit if his collar rule and only adjusted it before they came to inspect....totally impractical so dosnt necessarily allow the 'standard' to transfer to 'real life'

sorry if I sound a bit dim, but I don't really understand what you are trying to say here re the collar?

The KC system is not perfect and of course relies on the good administration of it in class which depends on the competency of the individual trainers.

If you can expand on the above perhaps I can respond with my views.

HTH

I am not suggesting anything at all, I am saying that many people use them, I do not "recommend" them, but I do not have a problem with people using them or head collars or harnesses provided that they do not ABUSE them.

As I have said before and will say again MANY people use choke chains on the DEAD LINK, including me! Why? Because it is more practical in certain situations, just like a head collar can be more practical in certain situations, just like harnesses can be more pracitcal in certain situations, just like rubber collars can etc etc etc

The chain does NOT have ONE specific purpose, if a handler CHOOSES to use it to give a correction that is their decision, the same way as correction can and IS given on flat collars, headcollars, harnesses and half checks.

I used to run the good citz tests. My clients were not allowed to use choke chains and I contacted the KC many times on the harness issue. Fortunately, it is not compulsory for dogs to have to wear chokers to take the test, just very, very unfortunate that they are allowed to.

As a trainer/club you make the rules, however from an examiner's point of view, the guidelines are clear, you may not penalise a candidate just because you personally do not agree with their choice; as long as it is suitable for the individual dog and it does not come under the prohibited list (ie pinch or electric) a candidate is at liberty to use it.

The fact that you have contacted the KC many times about the harness issue is neither here nor there, many of us have contacted the KC many times on a myriad of issues. Fortunately no owner is forced to wear a choke chain, nor forced to wear a half check, nor forced to wear a flat collar. Choice is a wonderful thing.


Are you seriously suggesting that people buy choke chains, or that trainers recommend them because they look pretty? The chain has one very specific purpose, to deliver a physical correction.


No doubt specifically bought to be used this way because they look pretty perhaps?

Prettyness is in the eye of the beholder, just as some people think dressing up dogs makes them look pretty, or wearing bejewelled collars does, we all have different views

Tell me SB, do you honestly and truly believe the vast majory of dogs wearing choke chains for the KCGC tests have been trained without yanking and jerking?.

I have no idea as an examiner. As a trainer I fully expect to see many dogs who have not been trained correctly by their owners, and hopefully by coming to me they will be able to see that there are ways of training which might be more comfortable for both.

I know there are a lot of clients I have had in the past who do things which are not "visible" in class, eg regularly hit their dogs with rolled up newspapers, but hopefully by example I can change their outlook by using a realistic approach with the maxim "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"

A slip LEAD is prohibited, not a slip COLLAR, last time I looked there was a difference between a collar and a lead!

It also specifically states that an examiner cannot penalise a dog if it is wearing a collar that they do not agree with (outwith the prohibited ones mentioned above).

I do have to apologise for making an erroneous statement before re head collars. In the guidelines it states words to the effect of an examiner must satisfy themselves that the owner can control their dog adequately without a head collar; it is up to the discretion of the examiner whether or not they allow the candidate to use it throughout the test.

Personally I do not, although if I was presented with an individual case where the owner had a particular disability, I may review that.

I did think you would say that.

In your opinion - what is the difference between a slip lead and a slip collar attached to a lead?