register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Chris
Dogsey Veteran
Chris is online now  
Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,921
Female 
 
10-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Hi Ben

I would guess it was mostly fear based, it could be argued that all aggression is fear based, fear of losing food, fear of losing status ect.

So he was basically attacking out of a get them before they get me idea. By stopping the attacks I was able to show him that they weren't going to get him and there was no need to get in first.

Adam
Wouldn't it have been easier for the dog to work through a combination of systematic desensitisation and counter-conditioning without the need for the collar and without the obvious anxiety he was feeling whilst working through the training?
rune
Dogsey Veteran
rune is offline  
Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
Female 
 
10-11-2010, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Hi Ben

I would guess it was mostly fear based, it could be argued that all aggression is fear based, fear of losing food, fear of losing status ect.

So he was basically attacking out of a get them before they get me idea. By stopping the attacks I was able to show him that they weren't going to get him and there was no need to get in first.

Adam
You can do the same with a muzzle. You refer to your dogs as stooge dogs----my stooge dogs will know how to diffuse an aggressive dog by ignoring it and teaching it different behaviours. With a muzzle it can be done safely.

I used one of my dogs frequently in this way. There were certain dogs I wouldn't have exposed him to as my reading of them was that they needed a different slower approach.

A stooge dog IMO doesn't consist of a worried dog paraded back and forth in order to test another dogs limits!

I also think that you have to be VERY careful when exposing stooge dogs to aggressive dogs, they need to be feeling 100% and be confident in their own skin. As they get older I'd stop altogether.

rune

rune
Emma
Dogsey Veteran
Emma is offline  
Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Female 
 
10-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Hi Ben

I would guess it was mostly fear based, it could be argued that all aggression is fear based, fear of losing food, fear of losing status ect.

So he was basically attacking out of a get them before they get me idea. By stopping the attacks I was able to show him that they weren't going to get him and there was no need to get in first.

Adam
No, you just showed him painful stimuli, do you truly believe that e-collar was the only method at your disposal to stop the problem, because I clearly see so many other options. I find it disturbing, that your usual response to a training or behavioural issue is to resort to an e-collar.
You sensationalise the dogs problem with the threat of pts. A lot of dogs are at the risk of being pts for many reasons, but I find that a lot of owners are just not willing to put the time in to figure out why the dog does certain things, boredom, fear, natural instinct, etc
My aggressive Maltese over came his issues without the use of an e-collar, the JRT I foster is able to be recalled from chasing a cat without the use of an e-collar, e-collars are not the first or last resort or even necessary, I find you just seem to think that this is the best method to correct a behaviour without the knowledge of further tools at your disposal.
Adam P
Almost a Veteran
Adam P is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
Male 
 
10-11-2010, 04:19 PM
I find the e collar the best method to sort it out, and I mean sort it in a reasonable timescale and properly sorted.

Btw lot of chat about e collars on genitials ect.

Here is the actual video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBgWdUjSfj8


Adam
SLB
Dogsey Veteran
SLB is offline  
Location: Nottingham, UK
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,540
Female 
 
10-11-2010, 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I find the e collar the best method to sort it out, and I mean sort it in a reasonable timescale and properly sorted.

Btw lot of chat about e collars on genitials ect.

Here is the actual video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBgWdUjSfj8


Adam
Surely a trainer would provide a timescale to fit the dog not the owner or the trainer him/herself?

And E-collars dont properly sort it - they simply mask the aggression with fear
Chris
Dogsey Veteran
Chris is online now  
Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,921
Female 
 
10-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I find the e collar the best method to sort it out, and I mean sort it in a reasonable timescale and properly sorted.
Oh come on, Adam - that's yet another tired argument. Working sensitively with a dog at a pace he can accept doesn't take the unreasonable amounts of time you suggest and the end result is probably more reliable as the dog has worked through his fears to overcome them rather than having his fears suppressed for fear of punishment.
rune
Dogsey Veteran
rune is offline  
Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
Female 
 
10-11-2010, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I find the e collar the best method to sort it out, and I mean sort it in a reasonable timescale and properly sorted.

Btw lot of chat about e collars on genitials ect.

Here is the actual video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBgWdUjSfj8


Adam
Now I wonder who gave you that link?

I really can't take anyone who is associated with that seriously--I really hope they are banned soon in England as well as Wales.

rune
Adam P
Almost a Veteran
Adam P is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
Male 
 
10-11-2010, 04:52 PM
Just type e collar training into youtube and its easy to find!

As are hundreds of other vids.

Adam
rune
Dogsey Veteran
rune is offline  
Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
Female 
 
10-11-2010, 05:16 PM
LOL

rune
Meg
Supervisor
Meg is offline  
Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
10-11-2010, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Just type e collar training into youtube and its easy to find!

As are hundreds of other vids.
Adam
How strange Adam, that video along with the weired tramp who posted it was banned from You Tube, I wonder if they are aware he has re joined and posted again . Are you his spokes person now , he has been banned across the internet , your association with him does nothing for your credibility.

I notice yet again you have been selective in replying to posts asking you questions ,that's your privilege of course but it speaks volumes to me !
Closed Thread
Page 17 of 98 « First < 7 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 27 67 > Last »


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top