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View Poll Results: Is CM improving as a TV trainer & offering more apt advice
Yes 45 52.33%
No 41 47.67%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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weim1
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Location: Mo usa
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 42
Female 
 
05-06-2009, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
Yes, CM is known for "alpha rolling" and "stringing up." However, I don't see it as the serious thing that some members see.

The alpha roll is simply CM rolling the dog on its back, as another dog would in certain situations.

The stringing up, as I see it, is when a dog is out of control (I believe CM refers to this as the red zone) and CM basically holds the dog in position via the use of a lead/leash, so as he is in control of the dog (I saw him do this once when a dog was basically about to attack him).
oh ok I thought you meant he hung em so someone else has put names to his methods.xx
Jackie
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Posts: 13,122
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
05-06-2009, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
I haven't read the whole post but just wanted to say, because of the title of this thread I watched it the other day to see if it was true.

It wasn't. It was terrible and possibly the worst I'd ever seen!!! It actually really upset me to see it.

The guy is not en expert, he gets dogs to stop dong things by making it seem a bad experience for them and to listen to him by scaring them into it.

I cannot stand him and am never watching CM again!!
Out of the mouths of babes !!!!!!!!

And Pidge, I dont mean that in a negative way..

But from the prospective of someone who has no preconceived ideas on him.

Listening to all the fours and against... yet you have watched his programme with a un biased view... and come to your own conclusion ..

Well done, you have seem for yourself , what he is capable off.

And you conclusion of his methods is spot on!!!

No one could have put it better

Well observed
Gnasher
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05-06-2009, 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Out of the mouths of babes !!!!!!!!

And Pidge, I dont mean that in a negative way..

But from the prospective of someone who has no preconceived ideas on him.

Listening to all the fours and against... yet you have watched his programme with a un biased view... and come to your own conclusion ..

Well done, you have seem for yourself , what he is capable off.

And you conclusion of his methods is spot on!!!

No one could have put it better

Well observed
I'll second that. I have a lot of respect for Pidge anyway, but in particular I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said Jackbox. Despite the fact that Pidge has come to a different conclusion than myself, she has reached this in an unbiased and clear thinking way.
Trouble
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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06-06-2009, 08:19 AM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
I cant believe im even posting this, but i do think i see improvement!!!

Hes still annoying & up his own ass& completly believes in his own hype, but does seem to have calmed down on the little cases, dosent seem to flood so much etc, some of the advice ive seen lately has been good advice.
I don't watch the programs anymore mainly due to lack of time but I don't watch any of the other doggy shows either tbh, although as Mish well knows I like the Mad Mexican. I don't find him annoying or up his own ar$e I find him amusing and quite personable. So hey shoot me.
I would say from reading the books he is evolving rather than improving just as many others such as John Fisher evolved.
mishflynn
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
Female 
 
06-06-2009, 05:16 PM
Im bowing out of this thread & the equally dull ecollar one.

Its cruel & inhumane & shows no respect for dogs,

Im unsubscribing from them so i will not comment on any more comments made to me on them.

PLEASE LOOK AFTER YOUR DOGS EVERYONE
Wysiwyg
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07-06-2009, 07:35 AM
Originally Posted by Promethean View Post
You can see the yorkie, displaying many of the stress signals: stiffness, backswept ears, sniffing, looking away and before the bite licking....

Millan missed them all.

I do wonder if he misses them, or simply doesn't care as he knows what he's going to do as he has only one way of doing things, claiming everything including the plant pot is trying to be dominant.

He once said a paw raise was dominant which was, frankly, c*** as it is well documented this is an appeasement gesture (in context).

He's terribly ignorant about things he should know, and people prefer to listen to him rather than the dogs...which I find very very sad.

Wys
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Wysiwyg
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07-06-2009, 07:38 AM
Originally Posted by weim1 View Post
I dont understand what you are saying with the stringing up,Ive never heard that word on his show or seen him do it,I have watched all his shows and not seen him make a dog uncomfortable Ive seen him deal with dogs that are already uncomfortable,hence why he was called in,also ive never heard him use the word "alpha roll"are you sure we are talking about the same show?/trainer
my dog responded to the calm energy and the touch,the walk and the love when she was calm,she is happier and I am happier,she has MORE freedom as I can now trust her where I couldnt before,we continue to watch his show every week,and the change in her in just a month is noticed by all my friends.xxx
http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

"JonBee, muzzled, is lifted off the ground by a choke chain, a procedure known as "stringing up". Prior to this, the dog had not only shown no signs of aggression but had been attempting to avoid interaction with the star completely.."

"What critics are primarily concerned with, however, is the psychological stress that dogs are placed under during the show. Many dogs that offer avoidance behaviors at the start of the show are often pushed to the point of aggression.

One disturbing example is JonBee, a Jindo who is forced to lie on his side. After a significant and dangerous struggle (during which the dog appears to have urinated), the dog finally gives up and allows himself to be rolled over. However, the dog is not relaxed. Quite the opposite. The dog exhibits all of the signs of stress listed in the previous article, and is exhibiting a phenomenon known as learned helplessness, sometimes referred to by trainers as "shut down."



http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
Wysiwyg
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07-06-2009, 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
The alpha roll is simply CM rolling the dog on its back, as another dog would in certain situations.
http://www.4pawsu.com/alpharoll.pdf

The stringing up, as I see it, is when a dog is out of control (I believe CM refers to this as the red zone) and CM basically holds the dog in position via the use of a lead/leash, so as he is in control of the dog (I saw him do this once when a dog was basically about to attack him).
Sometimes it deliberately includes cutting off the air supply ...

Wys
x
Wysiwyg
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07-06-2009, 07:43 AM
Originally Posted by weim1 View Post
oh ok I thought you meant he hung em so someone else has put names to his methods.xx
Hanging dogs is also a well documented method used by older dog trainers ... it is an actual method and is intended to cut off the air supply so the dog is unconscious.

Wys
x
ClaireandDaisy
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07-06-2009, 07:53 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Hanging dogs is also a well documented method used by older dog trainers ... it is an actual method and is intended to cut off the air supply so the dog is unconscious.

Wys
x
In the past Essex Police used this as a training method until they killed a dog and an enquiry was set up.
I was advised by a `behaviourist` to hold my dog up by her collar in order to make her give up a ball. I didn`t. I turned away and ignored her - then she gave me the ball.
The reason I don`t use confrontation is that there are more productive and intelligent methods.
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