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Azz
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05-08-2011, 10:16 PM

The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

Is The Culture Clash sill relevant? Or looking a bit outdated now? (Think it was first printed in 1996).

Do you think books like In Defence of Dogs by John Bradshaw are a better bet?

Anyone read both? How do they compare/differ?
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smokeybear
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05-08-2011, 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
Is The Culture Clash sill relevant? Or looking a bit outdated now? (Think it was first printed in 1996).

Do you think books like In Defence of Dogs by John Bradshaw are a better bet?

Anyone read both? How do they compare/differ?
I have had my copy of the CC for a number of years now, and I cannot recall anything in it that is either irrelevant or outdated.

I am in the middle of reading IDoD at the moment and have not found anything NEW in it thus far, just same old stuff put in a different way (as many books are).

I personally enjoy JDs style.
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ClaireandDaisy
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06-08-2011, 07:40 AM
Have dogs changed? Did I miss something?
These two people are singing from the same hymn-sheet as far as I can see.
No guru, book or tv programme should be Holy Writ for dog training. Every piece of advice (written, spoken or inserted in ways we won`t think about) should be passed though one`s moral and ethical filters first - then considered in light of the fact that whoever is giving the advice doesn`t know your dog.
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Wysiwyg
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06-08-2011, 08:07 AM
I haven't read The Culture Clash for ages, I'd have to rerread it I think Azz, to give a fair comment

I don't think it's the sort of book that can really be outdated as such, because it contains core truths about dog training and behaviour

I haven't yet read In Defence of Dogs, although I have read some of the studies the author was involved in. I was hoping to find it at Smiths or Waterstones, but I will have to order it. Can't wait to read it, as I love books that draw things together.

I think both John Fisher and Jean Donaldson have done this, it will be good to see what John Bradshaw has done with drawing together info over the last decade or so of research

Wys
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Wysiwyg
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06-08-2011, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Have dogs changed? Did I miss something?
These two people are singing from the same hymn-sheet as far as I can see.
No guru, book or tv programme should be Holy Writ for dog training. Every piece of advice (written, spoken or inserted in ways we won`t think about) should be passed though one`s moral and ethical filters first - then considered in light of the fact that whoever is giving the advice doesn`t know your dog.
Yeah, good observation ClaireandDaisy

Wys
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SLB
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06-08-2011, 08:50 AM
Only going by the article of IDoD I can say that it pretty much as the same as CC (of which I have)

I agree with C&D, SB and Wys on this one Azz.
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Azz
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06-08-2011, 11:38 AM
Hey Guys, thanks for the replies.

I was thinking more along the lines of research - it's been a long time since The Culture Clash was written, hence wondered if new studies or evidence has come to light that might put a slightly different perspective on things especially as John Bradshaw (In Defence of Dogs) says he's been involved with such studies (which might give the impression the results of new studies/research is covered in his book).
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Sara
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06-08-2011, 01:46 PM
I haven't read IDoD but read the Culture Clash, and John Bradshaw's book "Dog Sense" which just came out this year... fascinating! CC is way more of a training manual than Dog Sense is. And now, I'm mostly through reading "Inside of a Dog" by Alexandra Horowitz, which was recommended in "Dog Sense" and very VERY good! I cant seem to put it down, I started reading it yesterday, I'm nearly done!

I find all of it informative and worth the read, just as "The Dog Vinci Code", by John Rogerson, and "Reaching The Animal Mind" by Karen Pryor, to be equally important reads.

A new edition of CC is out... and bashes "popluar tv dog trainers" now too! LOL

What I dont get is with all this new research and experiments done on Dog behaviour, and wolf behaviour, why hasn't the Mexican been booted yet??!

And no, after reading Dog Sense, Inside of a Dog, The Culture Clash and The Dog Vinci Code all in rapid succession, I dont find many disparities, they all say much the same thing, just more detail into science from the first two.
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Meg
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06-08-2011, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Have dogs changed? Did I miss something?
These two people are singing from the same hymn-sheet as far as I can see.
No guru, book or tv programme should be Holy Writ for dog training. Every piece of advice (written, spoken or inserted in ways we won`t think about) should be passed though one`s moral and ethical filters first - then considered in light of the fact that whoever is giving the advice doesn`t know your dog.
Excellent post by Claire.

I haven't read Bradshaw's book but unless I am much mistaken this is the JB who in collaboration with Emily Blackwell and Rachel Casey produced the excellent paper ''Dominance in domestic dogs -- useful construct or bad habit?'' mentioned here ...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0521112711.htm
...and discussed in previous threads on Dogsey (and thanks to a very kind member I have a copy of the paper ) .

I think what the research did was to add weight to the theory and practice previously outlined by Donaldson in 'The Culture Clash' (and 'Dogs are from Neptune' which gives case histories and I found to be a less useful read).
I guess Bradshaw's book does is to expand on the research.

Is The Culture Clash still relevant? For me yes, other people are catching up with Donaldson and I would think the two books compliment each other.
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MerlinsMum
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06-08-2011, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Sara'n'Scout View Post
I haven't read IDoD but read the Culture Clash, and John Bradshaw's book "Dog Sense" which just came out this year... fascinating!
Then you HAVE read IDoD - "Dog Sense" is the same book, different title for the US market.
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