|
Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
|
09-11-2010, 01:36 AM
- They are a quick fix
- They are easily misused
- They can make a dog aggressive
- They have started banning them in various countries
- Many studies show that there is in large a problem for so many reasons it isn't funny
- If you don't want a dog with a high prey drive don't get certain breeds, e-collars are not the solution, informing yourself about the breed traits you want is much more effective
- A lot of people think e-collars fix a problem where it may just be suppressing the problem and higher volumes of pain from the e-collar may be needed to continue the suppression
- People think the dog will know why the painful stimuli has occurred and not think the dog may not be able to interpret why the painful stimuli to the exact reason it was given it
- There is no regulation on the different brands of e-collar and the amount of electrical impulse it gives
- Some fools on you-tube put an e-collar on themselves, amusing to watch and feel it an interesting response they give when some pro-ecollar people claim it does not hurt
- Don't care if e-collars are put into P+ or N- re-enforcement, it is painful stimuli and don't find it necessary
- I believe if you want to use one, put it on yourself give someone else the remote and when they want you to stop doing something and curb your ways press the button. Nothing like being a crash test dummy, but then if you are going to use one, I feel it best if you actually know what you are doing to your dog, ensure it is on your neck
- I have asked why we can't use it on children for a learning technique, the only answer I have ever been given is "I don't know about children", I say because you would be put up for assault, why is it okay to do it to an animal though
That's about it for now, could go on and on but have done that before.
On a personal note, I have a foster JRT at the moment that was put in the pound as it chased chooks, yesterday, I had her off lead she saw a cat, the cat ran, she started to chase I called her back, she came back straight away, she too was in the pound and would have been pts if not rescued. That does not mean an e-collar was my only option to correct her behaviour.
THE END
|
Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
|
09-11-2010, 07:19 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox 
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!
What an absolute plonker you are....sorry folks, could not think of any other way to say it!
1) That poor dog he is terrified of you
2) You have absolutely no control over your dogs, the collie "completey ignored your recall command" you had to repeat, repeat , repeat yourself over and over again...and he still ignored you, the collie came back in his own time.
Now I understand why Adam uses the e.collar......... because its the only way he can get a dog to listen to him
Priceless...if it was not so sad (for the dogs) it would be funny!!
& hes throwing sticks!!!!!
What happens to the electricity if jacca had jumped
in the river?
|
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
|
09-11-2010, 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
..at the risk of upsetting some people, if I was a little terrier about to be put to sleep and instead ended up in Adams hands living in perpetual fear, given electric shocks for displaying natural traits or because no one had ever taught me to behaviour to fit in with human expectations I would rather be peacefully asleep thank you.
Me too Min, poor thing, at least if he was PTS , he would not have to endure Adam, using him to promote his videos.
|
|
Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
|
09-11-2010, 09:28 AM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
Exactly what i thought
& hes throwing sticks!!!!!
What happens to the electricity if jacca had jumped
in the river?
|
Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
|
09-11-2010, 09:55 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
poor wee guy!! what exactly were you trying to acheive there? what do you think the dog was learning? were you using the shock at all? and why was it needed for a heelwork exercise on the lead?
Watching that made me very sad
If that was the only alternative for Mia I would prefer her a limitied life muzzled and on the lead but only stressed when other dogs are about - rather than a lifetime of being 'fixed' but cowed
But thankfully it isnt the only way to train a about to be pts dog with agression issues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFRPlsb-ipM
again not the best vid in the world, from earlier on with my two so I was using high rates of reward to help Mia overcome her food agression issues - as you can see she is happily watching Ben eating. and keeping it v calm and simple because one dog waiting while the other worked was new to them - and especially Ben gets to excited and wants to join in - or gets excited barks
they work exactly the same without food in my hand - I was just holding it so I could give lots of rewards (before anyone says my dogs are just working for bribary)
I hope you agree they are happy to be playing tricks with me
you can't even begin to make a comparison between your video and the one posted by Adam, ..your dogs are alert and animated,
..they await your every move with eager anticipation not fear.
Fantastic, a lesson in how it should be done by someone with patience and empathy.
|
Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
|
09-11-2010, 10:03 AM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Pam
you can't even begin to make a comparison between your video and the one posted by Adam, ..your dogs are alert and animated,
..they await your every move with eager anticipation not fear.
Fantastic, a lesson in how it should be done by someone with patience and empathy.
TBH if a dog trainer can`t train a dog to retrieve or sit without artificial aids that induce pain, I doubt they are able to lace their own shoes.
|
|
Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
|
09-11-2010, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Can I just point out that a few weeks prior to the vid he was due to be pts for aggression.
I wouldn't have taken him on otherwise I wasn't even looking for another dog and certainly not another jrt (sorry Finn). I only took him on to save him.
He had been aggressive to his owners and other people. In disputes over food he'd bitten his owners numerouse times (multi bite attacks) and had also randomly attacked them.
He was only ever walked on lead and muzzled after attacking other dogs on walks.
Feel free to take on a dog with that history people, and train it up as you like. He's now a teaching dog btw.
Btw what is that clicking its annoying.
Adam
in my rescue career ive heard many owners misdiagnose, misread, mishandle, mismanage, and misinterpret the situation when a dog has shown aggression.
ive even heard some degree based behaviourists recommend euthanasia also based on lack of knowledge.
so im sceptical on this occasion.
to me, at this time, its just a collection of words
why does the jack russell cower just before the collie runs nr him?
do you think it a necessary skill that dogs should learn to move away from other dogs if their is no issue or aggresion or danger?
|
|
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
|
09-11-2010, 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker
personally, i alwasy take statements such as the owner said he was going to be PTS due to aggression with a heavy pinch of salt.
in my rescue career ive heard many owners misdiagnose, misread, mishandle, mismanage, and misinterpret the situation when a dog has shown aggression.
ive even heard some degree based behaviourists recommend euthanasia also based on lack of knowledge.
so im sceptical on this occasion.
to me, at this time, its just a collection of words
why does the jack russell cower just before the collie runs nr him?
do you think it a necessary skill that dogs should learn to move away from other dogs if their is no issue or aggresion or danger?
|
|
Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
|