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Eleven children injured in Blyth park dog attack

...has received 92 comments (page 7)
Crysania
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
Female 
 
23-05-2016, 02:51 PM
So you saw ONE dog in an "unprovoked" attack and now all dogs are vicious?

I had a Shiba Inu attack me. I guess they're all dangerous. We should put them all down.

A German Shepherd once attacked my dog. I guess they're all dangerous. We should put them all down.
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Crysania
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
Female 
 
23-05-2016, 02:52 PM
BTW, pit bulls and associated breeds were not meant to be aggressive to humans. Even the ones bred for fighting. They were bred to be DOG aggressive. That's an entirely different story, so stop with the "it's in the breed" nonsense. It absolutely IS NOT. The issue is HUMANS. As it always is.
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Trouble
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
23-05-2016, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by waggytail View Post
Hi All,

Firstly, I really appreciate that this is a very emotive subject but I have been following this story and the on-going debate on this forum and I felt I needed to comment. I believe that this particular incident could be the most number of injuries to individuals inflicted by a dog ever recorded? It is tragic that these individuals were children and my heart goes out to all of the families involved.

The reason why I feel the need to add a further comment is that my personal view on so called "dangerous dogs" was seriously challenged recently after witnessing a dog biting a woman in a seemingly completely unprovoked attack.

My conclusion after much soul searching was that certain breeds of dogs do indeed have a strong instinct for impulsive behaviour, boisterous behaviour, guarding, defensiveness and ultimately aggression. I feel we must accept that certain breed traits can be dangerous, especially if the dog is not well bred, well raised and well managed. This is not an unfair stereotype, Just like certain breeds are bred for herding, hunting or chasing these are just behaviours that need to be acknowleged and managed properly with socialising and training. unfortunately the reality may be that this is not happening.

I used to be a strong supporter of the "Deed not Breed" campaign but I now feel its time to be more honest and realistic about some of these dogs, especially the larger more powerful breeds, I am deliberately not naming any breeds in particular as not to offend however I am as shocked as everyone else to hear that it was a little staffie that mauled all those children.

We need to accept that certain breeds of dog are highly likely to have very particular behaviour/temperament traits, this is surely a fact?. I'm sure that anyone would accept the strong chase drive of a greyhound or the strong herding instinct of a collie so why question the strong impulsive guarding nature of the Bull breeds? Every day dog owners struggle to raise and train their dogs (of all breeds) properly, this forum is full of owners asking for help.. The consequences of not properly understanding these dogs are just too high.
Firstly everyone who posted feels sympathy for the children and the parents of those involved.
That does not mean we think any breed should be banned.The whole point of deed not breed means that we should take action against a specific dog that bites. What sort of world would it be if every dog was made to suffer for the actions of 1 or even a few. You can't judge an entire breed by the actions of a few dogs, it's just wrong. In fact in this instance action should be taken against the owner and the person walking the dog.
If people have a dog they struggle to train they should seek help. One can only assume the breed you won't name is a Staffie as this thread is about Staffies. Staffies are people pleasers, they are easy to train, it really doesn't take much effort. The problem they have is they are incredibly popular with the wrong people. Apparently people think they look hard.
Is that any reason to punish every Staffie, I don't think so.
Many people will tell you Staffie's make rubbish guard dogs, they don't bark much and will very likely lick an intruder rather than bite him or guard your property.
GSD's guard, Dobermanns guard, Rottweilers guard should they be banned too? No intruder would have got past my Boxer or my Cocker spaniel either, should they all be banned?
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Trouble
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
23-05-2016, 05:09 PM
Isn't it Labradors that have the highest rate of bite incidents?
It certainly used to be.
Labradors the dog that people think of as a wonderful family dog because they train themselves as we all know.
Any dog that becomes extremely popular with the public will of course fall into the hands of poor breeders, producing poor specimens of the breed. Some of which will have iffy temperaments.
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waggytail
Dogsey Junior
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 199
Female 
 
23-05-2016, 06:54 PM
Please don't put words in my mouth...

I agree that there are many factors to consider here, but Breed IS one of them, this is why I have come to believe that breed specific legislation does have a part to play, I do not agree with banning dogs or euthanizing dogs because of their breed but I do feel that certain breeds need more experienced handling and better understanding so therefore certain breed specific regulation such as licensing, age restrictions on ownership etc would be the way forward?

Any dog has the potential to act aggressively but the factors for me are:

The size/strength/ acquired bite inhibition of the dog

The temperament/personality and instinct of the dog

The breeding and raising/training/ general responsibility of the owner for the dog

Nurture is indeed important but so is nature, the first 2 factors on the above list are influenced by breed (nature)

Dogs have been specifically bred so that size, temperament, instincts etc can be predicted, certain breeds therefore have been shown to have more aggressive tendencies. I feel that perhaps legislation on certain breeds of dog would promote more responsible ownership?
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Crysania
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
Female 
 
23-05-2016, 07:01 PM
So are you for banning or restricting ownership of all breeds above a certain size? Pit bulls are often medium-size dogs (40-60 pounds), so should anything over 40 pounds be restricted in your idea of legislation?

That would mean banning or restricting Golden Retrievers, Labs, most Border collies, most pointers, Australian Shepherds, Great Danes, all mastiff breeds, Rottweilers, Huskies, Samoyeds, Malamutes, and many many other breeds.

And what kind of legislation should we all be subject to?

I hate to break it to you but while you can anticipate SOME aspects based on breed (e.g. BCs will probably want to herd, JRTs will probably chase small prey), you cannot predict temperament entirely. And much of that comes from nurture. Lack of socialization and mistreatment early in life can cause a dog who might have been fine otherwise to be completely unstable.

And NO DOGS should have the instinct to kill people. Other dogs? Yes. Prey animals? Yes. But I have met dog aggressive dogs of pretty much every single breed out there (in fact, I know far more BCs that are dog aggressive than I do pit bulls).

So how do you plan on going about such a legislation? Just restrict them all? I'd rather not have people tell me what dog I can have based on some arbitrary standard and complete lack of understanding of breed traits.
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Crysania
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
Female 
 
23-05-2016, 07:02 PM
Bite inhibition, btw, can very much be a product of nurture. This is why so many puppies who are taken from their mother and litter early (under 8 weeks) have no bite inhibition. They never learned it properly and it can be hard for humans to teach it.
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Trouble
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
23-05-2016, 08:04 PM
Well if we're talking about Staffies we're talking anything over 16 inches tall and weighing more than 15.5 kgs, jeez that's a lot of dogs. I dunno about anyone else but that's hardly intimidating to me.
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Trouble
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
23-05-2016, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by waggytail View Post
Please don't put words in my mouth...

I agree that there are many factors to consider here, but Breed IS one of them, this is why I have come to believe that breed specific legislation does have a part to play, I do not agree with banning dogs or euthanizing dogs because of their breed but I do feel that certain breeds need more experienced handling and better understanding so therefore certain breed specific regulation such as licensing, age restrictions on ownership etc would be the way forward?

Any dog has the potential to act aggressively but the factors for me are:

The size/strength/ acquired bite inhibition of the dog

The temperament/personality and instinct of the dog

The breeding and raising/training/ general responsibility of the owner for the dog

Nurture is indeed important but so is nature, the first 2 factors on the above list are influenced by breed (nature)

Dogs have been specifically bred so that size, temperament, instincts etc can be predicted, certain breeds therefore have been shown to have more aggressive tendencies. I feel that perhaps legislation on certain breeds of dog would promote more responsible ownership?

I didn't put words in anyone's mouth.

So we'll all need a licence to own most dogs, how does that work, do we have to apply before we take a dog on?
When would the dog be tested for temperament, bite inhibition etc? 8 weeks, a year, 2 years, every year of it's life?
What happens if it fails? I'm interested honestly.
My well bred, kc registered staffie has never shown any aggression to anyone and he is typical of his breed. Although when he's play fighting with my male Pug he sounds like a Tasmanian devil.
You lost me somewhat with your specifically bred for size and temperament etc because he was. He doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body, whether that is his nature or nurture I wouldn't like to say, probably both. He does of course have an extremely responsible owner, me. I couldn't have applied for a licence before buying him, because I didn't buy him. I took him on as a youngster when his family broke up, it was me or rescue.
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NickyAnn
Dogsey Senior
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 366
Female 
 
23-05-2016, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by waggytail View Post
Hi All,

Firstly, I really appreciate that this is a very emotive subject but I have been following this story and the on-going debate on this forum and I felt I needed to comment. I believe that this particular incident could be the most number of injuries to individuals inflicted by a dog ever recorded? It is tragic that these individuals were children and my heart goes out to all of the families involved.

The reason why I feel the need to add a further comment is that my personal view on so called "dangerous dogs" was seriously challenged recently after witnessing a dog biting a woman in a seemingly completely unprovoked attack.

My conclusion after much soul searching was that certain breeds of dogs do indeed have a strong instinct for impulsive behaviour, boisterous behaviour, guarding, defensiveness and ultimately aggression. I feel we must accept that certain breed traits can be dangerous, especially if the dog is not well bred, well raised and well managed. This is not an unfair stereotype, Just like certain breeds are bred for herding, hunting or chasing these are just behaviours that need to be acknowleged and managed properly with socialising and training. unfortunately the reality may be that this is not happening.

I used to be a strong supporter of the "Deed not Breed" campaign but I now feel its time to be more honest and realistic about some of these dogs, especially the larger more powerful breeds, I am deliberately not naming any breeds in particular as not to offend however I am as shocked as everyone else to hear that it was a little staffie that mauled all those children.

We need to accept that certain breeds of dog are highly likely to have very particular behaviour/temperament traits, this is surely a fact?. I'm sure that anyone would accept the strong chase drive of a greyhound or the strong herding instinct of a collie so why question the strong impulsive guarding nature of the Bull breeds? Every day dog owners struggle to raise and train their dogs (of all breeds) properly, this forum is full of owners asking for help.. The consequences of not properly understanding these dogs are just too high.
Thank you................!
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