no, an onslaught of an opinion in its own right (good phrase btw ) is just that, and freedom of speech.

that is not the same as "battering" the person for expressing an opinion one does not like to hear (which was the point Wilbar was making).

which i dont think anyone can claim AP has ever done...the evidence does not exist in his posts.

I am a full time professional trainer. I handle all sorts of dogs,beloved pets, police dogs, security dogs, personal protection dogs, sport dogs, name it. I never use an e-collar, I just dont need it, its not in my toolbox, despite I work mostly with really high drive dogs.
E-collar users like to claim how effective it is. Well, it might be, but in my opinion only a fix on the surface.
I can tell a e-collar trained dog from a mile, their behaviour, bodylanguage and general state of mind differs a lot and the users of these devices either ignore it or they just have no knowledge of the side effects.
I speak from experience as I have tried it for a very short spell a few years ago and I never found it satisfactory so I threw it in the bin.
I have not met anyone yet who can do better with an e-collar than I can do without.
If the ban is the right step, time will tell. Without education it might not make the impact the creators are hoping for.
All the best
Ulf

Hello Ulf

I know who you are

Interesting what you say, as the word on the street is you handle pretty hardcore dogs and do use an ecollar on occassion.

Dont ask me how that rumour got around...im just reflecting what i heard.

Havent posted this to say i dont believe you, just as you might be interested for your own PR purposes.

Thanks for the reply Krusewalker. Interesting to hear about the rumours, but I can asure you, I do not even have an e-collar. If you do not believe me I understand, best bet you pay us a visit to see for yourself ( this lesson will be for free ) I have nothing to hide pal.
All the best
Ulf

No, like i said, i believe you.

I just added that for your info, as thats the rumour i heard recently about you.

i have intended to visit, i will take you up on your invite.

cheers.

Sorry I misunderstood you, Foreigner you know
Anyway, looking forward to meeting you.
Gotta go now, doing some training
All the best
Ulf

Rumour abounds when someone is successful with high drive dogs and doesn't use shock collars.

rune

Doubt it, its much easier and quicker to zap the dog than sit down and learn an alternative way!

I only came to disable the instant notification, but while I'm here:


I do agree with this, I believe that PR should be the first "port of call" so to speak, and why not:

it works
it's enjoyable
it's fun (assuming of course that the trainer likes dogs!).


I'm not convinced by that article - the reason I'm not convinced is that it relies on emotive language to underpin it's foundation:

"The principle of an electric shock collar is to cause the dog pain.........."

I have myself experienced what is effectively an electric shock in the following ways:

1) From touching an electric fence.
2)Touching faulty electrical equipment/equipment that hadn't been earthed correctly.
3)Physio (e-stim ???).
4) Putting a battery across my tongue (I was young ).

Of those, only the electric fence was painful. Of the others, the sensation/stimulus, or electric shock if you prefer, varied from a tickling feel to a mild vibrating. In principle, it is possible to deliver what is correctly termed an electric shock that isn't painful.

I'm not convinced that there could never be a case where training with an e-collar (shock collar if you want) would not be a valid method but understand people's opposition to it.

The e-stim (if that's what it was called - can't actually remember) could be turned up to a level where it was begining to feel painful, and I suspect that the opposition to e-collars may (in some cases) be based on the fact that some people will put the collar on "MAX" to let the dog really "know who's boss" ........ which reminds I have a thread to start on that topic. In other cases maybe people are opposed to it on principle (it is after all an electric shock).

If e-collars are still being sold to people in Wales, the collars will be being used quietly and out of sight - how many turned up to "Max"?

good to have you here and so well said!!
I think you are right that people just dont see the stress in the dogs
There are a few videos on you tube (which I have put up before but are not working for me) where a guy is training his dog to heel with a chole chain and a lead smack to the bum to get it to sit
He just dosent see how unhappy and stressed his dog is, how she flinches when he whacks her bum, all the stress signals
He just sees she is gazing at him and wagging her tail - yup she is trying to figure out what she can do to stop him hitting and choking her and is trying to calm him down

so many people just cannot read dogs - and its heartbreaking