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Helen
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15-11-2006, 09:17 PM
From what I understand, you can still show a docked dog that has been docked after the ban (working dogs) but only at shows that the public are not paying to enter. Totally bonkers to me!

It won't really affect me as my main interest is working gundogs. I have started to show my gwp but only very rarely so I don't think I would miss it.

I still don't understand how they are going to do the working dogs only. How are they going to police it? I was chatting to a friend who is a vet and she said she will only dock gundogs anyway, and is really only happy about docking working gundogs. Fair enough but do you need to prove to someone else that the dogs are going to be working? What about the springers who go into pet homes? Try telling them they aren't working when being exercised.

Helen
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novavizz
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15-11-2006, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Sorry guys...tried not to post, but I have to say it, I am fully in favour of the ban.
Me too, Ailsa
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Luke
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15-11-2006, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Helen View Post
From what I understand, you can still show a docked dog that has been docked after the ban (working dogs) but only at shows that the public are not paying to enter. Totally bonkers to me!

It won't really affect me as my main interest is working gundogs. I have started to show my gwp but only very rarely so I don't think I would miss it.

I still don't understand how they are going to do the working dogs only. How are they going to police it? I was chatting to a friend who is a vet and she said she will only dock gundogs anyway, and is really only happy about docking working gundogs. Fair enough but do you need to prove to someone else that the dogs are going to be working? What about the springers who go into pet homes? Try telling them they aren't working when being exercised.

Helen
Agree.
I see it as a ridiculous law with many loopholes..
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pod
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15-11-2006, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by Munsti-Sue View Post
So it is legal to dock before 5 days old if the dog can be proven to be a working dog....fair enough....what happens with duel purpose dogs which are shown and worked...would it still be illegel to show or is that #7 in section 6?
Yes, I think it will be illegal to show any dog docked after the date of commencement.

I can see that this could see disaster for docked breeds that truely are dual purpose. I'ts going to divide the two factions completely.

(9) A person commits an offence if—
(a) he shows a dog at an event to which members of the public
admitted on payment of a fee,
(b) the dog’s tail has been wholly or partly removed (in England and Wales
or elsewhere), and
(c) removal took place on or after the commencement day.
(10) Where a dog is shown only for the purpose of demonstrating its working
ability, subsection (9) does not apply if the dog is a subsection (3) dog.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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15-11-2006, 09:56 PM
This is bad news for me. I'm looking to work and show my Springers. Isla will be ok as she has been docked already, but what about any future pups.

I can dock them as I'll work them - but then I can't show them? So the only option I'm going to have now is to keep their tails and watch them suffer horrendous (sp?) injuries!!!!!

I'm all for not docking for cosmetic reasons, but it's clear to me that the people that have decided this has no clue whatsoever - as per usual!

Not only this, but those gundog breeds that haven't already split willl mostly likely do so if people are not allowed to do both.

Very, very sad.

Oh and before I get jumped on (which will inevitably happen on a thread such as this) I dock my dogs as I believe it is in their best interests to prevent injury - which is common place in working full tails. I'm not goling to get into an argument or defend my decision. It's mine and I choose to do so for good reason. I too believe in freedom of choice, something which is almost extinct these days.

Anyone wishing to see my views can do so from this thread onwards: http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php...psnorterthe2nd
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Steve
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15-11-2006, 10:12 PM
Very sad when choice has been taken away.
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Munsti-Sue
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16-11-2006, 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
How the hell can you tell if a dog is to make the grade of a working dog at -5 days old?!?!
Do what my breed does in the states? - sell dogs only to homes that will work and test the dogs....which is kind of impractical here in the UK really...unless the new owner were prepared to do enough field training to put the dog threw a kc working test....therefore classing it as "working dog"

...will be interesting to see the loopholes open up
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Patch
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16-11-2006, 09:39 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Sorry guys...tried not to post, but I have to say it, I am fully in favour of the ban.
Don`t be sorry, I was shouting and hopping about with joy - literally - when I saw the details in the welfare act yesterday. I wish working dogs were not exempt as there are bound to be the unethical vets still doing it as they have been since the RCVS classified it as unethical based on being done for non-medical reasons, and no way can any vet or any breeder catagorically state that any pup of a few days old will be a working dog but stopping it in the show ring will hopefully sort it in the main


:smt041 :smt041 :smt041 :smt041 :smt041
:smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026
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Patch
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16-11-2006, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
How the hell can you tell if a dog is to make the grade of a working dog at -5 days old?!?!
Its impossible - so it should help snare the unethical vets who can finally be prosecuted, thats got to be a good thing in my book
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Patch
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16-11-2006, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
Yes, I think it will be illegal to show any dog docked after the date of commencement.

I can see that this could see disaster for docked breeds that truely are dual purpose. I'ts going to divide the two factions completely.

(9) A person commits an offence if—
(a) he shows a dog at an event to which members of the public
admitted on payment of a fee,
(b) the dog’s tail has been wholly or partly removed (in England and Wales
or elsewhere), and
(c) removal took place on or after the commencement day.
(10) Where a dog is shown only for the purpose of demonstrating its working
ability, subsection (9) does not apply if the dog is a subsection (3) dog.


Hopefully it will lead to less hunting if people have to choose and favour showing as their pastime - happy with that possibility
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