Maybe a trip to specsavers is due

You like my theory, I was using it as painful stimuli being an appropriate measure.
Operant learning - slap
the consequences - a slap
Learn that it is their behaviour created the slap within 3 reps.
Not so blind



And I think you will find that Minihaha, was actually talking about your posts being almost verbatim of other peoples work and if you are going to do that, you need to post the site you pulled it from.

Oh and welcome to Dogsey

what`s that got to do with dog training then?

B F Skinners 4 operants, ref, The Behaviour of Organisms 1938 (& other b f skinner writings)

1. Negative punishment anything which weakens a behaviour
2. Positive punishment anything which weakens a behaviour
3. Negative reinforcer anything which strengthens a behaviour.
Positive reinforcer, strengthens a behaviour

The above are Skinners 4 operants in full, there are there are no variations which constitute operant learning theory.

Non operant, irrelevant misinterpretation
Something Good can start or be presented;
Something Good can end or be taken away;
Something Bad can start or be presented;
Something Bad can end or be taken away.
Ref
http://www.wagntrain.com/OC/

I am unsure of what you are trying to prove from this??
What do you think e-collars are grouped in?
I gather you support them, but using Skinners operant conditioning, you may be interested to know Skinner didn't actually approve of adverse stimuli being used, because he found they didn't work as well. The hidden reinforcer has just been covered up with conflicting adverse stimuli.
Really good reading........Taken from this site -
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/skinner.html

We can argue all we like about where e-collars fit in the operant groupings, but the fact is e-collars cause a painful stimuli to motivate, to try to get the dog to stop its behaviour.
It is a quick fix more than anything and the more research I do on this the more I see it as the easiest way, not a matter of the best way.
There seems to be a short-sighted opinion of how well it works, when used compared to the long term ability of it to be effective without having to increase beyond the 'lowest setting' and in my opinion it is because it is masking the behaviour not correcting it.

Cool post's Niki, your saying what I'm thinking lol.

The 3 consequences thing is very common in dog training, often you'll find that on the 3rd repition the dog gets it and just needs to repeat the practice and be distraction proofed. If the training is any good of course!

Adam

All this operant stuff is too far from plain English for me to remotely comprehend (could you not use less jargon or perhaps I just need a zap to aid my concentration eh? ) but that date leapt out at me.

Are you saying that you are using methods of training over 70 years old!

Adam, you come across as a very young man to me, surely you should have a more up to date attitude than someone who was an adult in 1938 as Nikie appear to be.

Yep---that follows Especially if it is Denis.

Be very careful AP----you REALLY don't want to go that way. Lou is bad enough.

rune