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ClaireandDaisy
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Location: Essex, UK
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09-03-2012, 09:54 AM

Joint aid for raw-fed dogs?

Daisy has been getting a bit stiff at night lately through keeping up with the young dog.
ATM she`s on bed rest because she`s strained her leg.
What can I give for joint aid? Apart from pills, I mean?
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celli
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09-03-2012, 10:12 AM
I've found ( after trying various supplements ) that what works for one dog, doesn't always work for another. For instance, many people swear by Synflex, but it did next to nothing for my dogs. The two I found to be most effective for mine were Glycoflex and Cortavet, of the two my preference if for Cortavet as you can get it in a liquid which is easier to give, Glycoflex is a very large fishy tablet that my dogs hated.
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jesterjenn
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09-03-2012, 10:38 AM
You can get glucosamin in a gravy sort of thing. The vet that produces it is called Joe someone. Sorry.

ETA - or you could get the pills and crush them onto their meat.

ETA again - the gravy stuff is called Vets Kitchen (just asked a friend who uses it)
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bellaluna
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09-03-2012, 10:41 AM
I buy Luposan Gelenk. It can be bought at zooplus (at least on the english and german version)

Its cheap and it works for my Luna. I also give salmon oil and ginger (1 gram grounded (is it called that?) powder).
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sandymere
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09-03-2012, 11:26 AM
The diet should give all the calcium, protein etc to repair without additives. Most aches and pains go in there own time with sensible rehab, osteoarthritis tends to have a cyclical nature with times of pain followed with periods of remission. Many swear by over the counter treatments as the pain stopped soon after starting them when in truth the pain when into remission and the herb etc was just a co incidence, alas once the connection is made its difficult to unmake. Glucosamine type meds are a big one for this as they are still prescribed by vets who are not up to date on the more recent findings.

The largest and best-designed clinical trial is the Glucosamine/chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT), which is funded by the National Institutes of Health. So far, the GAIT has produced two sets of negative results. In 2006, the researchers reported on a 24-week study that involved 1583 patients who were randomly assigned to receive 500 mg of glucosamine hydrochloride three times daily, 400 mg of sodium chondroitin sulfate three times daily, 500 mg of glucosamine plus 400 mg of chondroitin sulfate three times daily, 200 mg of celecoxib (Celebrex) daily, or a placebo. The study found that glucosamine and chondroitin, alone or together, did not reduce osteoarthritis knee pain more effectively than a placebo. The drug group did about 17% better than the placebo group [3].
The above-mentioned report was accompanied by an editorial which concluded:
[Based on this study], it seems prudent to prudent to tell our patients with symptomatic osteoarthritis of the knee that neither glucosamine hydrochloride nor chondroitin sulfate alone has been shown to be more efficacious than placebo for the treatment of knee pain. (Quack Watch)


So active rest/rehab, anti inflammatory drugs if it gets bad and a realization that aches and pains are a normal part of life and there are no magic cures to that natural wear and tear of life either ours or our dogs.
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ClaireandDaisy
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09-03-2012, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by sandymere View Post
The diet should give all the calcium, protein etc to repair without additives.
grandma / eggs.
If you can`t be helpful, be quiet, my old mum used to say....
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Wozzy
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09-03-2012, 01:04 PM
I thought that a raw fed diet contained glucosamine and chondroitin by way of the bones the dogs consume. Not sure if thats correct, seem to recall it from something i'd read.
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Lynn
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09-03-2012, 01:57 PM
I have Dillon on vet vits more as a prevention I am not sure if they would help once the problem has set in or whether you would need something stronger.

Chicken necks, backs wings etc., do carry cartilage etc to help with the aid of oiling the joints but as a preventative when young giving them something does not hinder the dogs especially large breeds. Dillons breeders friend has her pups on glucosamine from the day she takes them home to the day they leave her and no ill effects and the vet nurse last night said much the same thing better to do it when young if you can rather than wait for the problem to set in. You cannot overdose on the glucosamine etc.,. She has been on a seminar to confirm the findings.

I would imagine the dog Clair is referring to is an older rescue dog so probably has not been on a raw diet all its life and maybe not of had the best start nutritionally so now the problem needs helping. Apologies if I am wrong.

Here is the link Clair there maybe something else there which may help if the vet vits are not any good. I paid £7.99 for 120 tablets and the delivery is free.

www.vetvits.co.uk
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sandymere
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09-03-2012, 01:59 PM
Indeed Leanne, it should give more than enough of all the substrate required for growth and repair.
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sandymere
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09-03-2012, 03:02 PM
Something I penned a few years ago that may be of interest.
Arthritis the inevitable cost of Life?

When we think of arthritis in dogs in the main we mean osteoarthritis and it’s often thought that it is the inevitable result of life. There is a second type known as rheumatoid arthritis, an autoimmune disease, but thankfully in dogs the incidence of this type is relatively low as it’s a very different kettle of fish that needs proper diagnosis and ongoing treatment from a vet so we will concentrate on osteoarthritis.

Generally when we talk of osteoarthritis we mean the aches and pains that come with age, that creaking knee or dodgy shoulder, and our dogs are as prone to this as we are. Traditionally it was thought that general wear and tear were causative and the more you did the more damage you got. Recent research in both dogs and people suggest this is not the case and normal joint use does not necessarily contribute, in fact human runners are likely to have less joint pain in later life than their sedentary counterparts and a group of dogs exercised on a treadmill with weighted packs were found to have no more joint damage than those just left to wander around a paddock un-weighted.

Today it’s generally accepted that exercise is likely to be beneficial to joint and general health so why do our dogs get increasing incidence of chronic niggles and lameness as they age? Megan, the older of my two lurchers has a couple of, what I would describe, as weak points but in both cases it was not exercise that was the root case but injury. She has a knocked up toe with occasional lameness in that foot and a hip injury that shows itself if she consecutive hard nights lamping, both the affected joints show changes that would be labeled osteoarthritis. In the perfect world we’d have more the exercise but not the trauma with the result; super fit super healthy dogs, alas reality has other ideas.

I’m proud to say my dogs, as workers, are fitter than most which defiantly reduces the incidence of many health problems but the nature of the work they undertake increases the risk of injury which then leads to trouble later on. Twisting and turning at high speed on uneven ground is enough to case minor strains which can then lead these types of oesteoarthritic changes. Pet dogs chasing a ball, jumping over obstacles etc are also likely to get similar injuries with similar outcomes. How we manage the problem is the key to good long term outcome as good management can reduce the extent of the chronic structural changes that result from the initial acute injury.

Megan’s toe is a classic example, she went lame running across Dartmoor, and most likely it was just bad luck, hitting a rock at the wrong angle that pushed the joint outside of its achievable range. Even in the middle of nowhere there are things you can do with this type of injury, once the problem had been isolated, getting the foot in a cold stream gave relief plus slowed and reduced swelling and the inflammatory process. Over the next couple of days it was rest and anti-inflammatories followed by a few weeks of gentle exercise and massage. I was lucky in that it was early summer so there was no time pressure on recovery and in truth she has had little in the way of problems, the only time she goes lame is if she runs on the hard ground of summer, the softer winter ground seems fine.

Her hip is an example of a less positive outcome where a chronic problem has recurrent acute episodes. It started when another lurcher latched on to her thigh as she ran past; this caused an overextension of the joint and surrounding tissues. On x-ray the hip looked ok but the supporting tissues had suffered marked trauma which lead to the formation of scar tissue and reduced mobility over the longer period. It happened on the beach so a dip in the sea gave good immediate cooling then to the vets for an x-ray as the hip was very swollen and painful. Although initially the bony structure showed as undamaged there was soft tissue injury and in spite of extensive treatment scar tissue formed around the hip, this weakened the area to a marked degree. The early intervention followed by anti-inflammatories, massage, joint mobilization, rest etc meant that she could still work but as the years past there was an increasingly tendency to suffer pain around the joint. In both these cases cold water was the first line of defense, it could have been an ice pack if available, followed by a thorough program of rehabilitation. It wasn’t a cure but it minimized the damage to allow a comfortable productive career to continue.

There is no real cure to osteoarthritis and no real way of completely avoiding the injuries that precede it but appropriate intervention and ongoing awareness of their presence is central to allowing our dogs to maintain wellbeing beyond the first few years of working life and into old age. There is a plethora of over the counter treatments available, I’ve even heard diet mentioned, but in truth common sense is key. A fit dog worked/exercised in a sensible way, fed an appropriate balance of protein, fat and carbohydrate either as a commercial food or home prepared, will be well set to recover from the knocks and bangs of everyday life. Our role then is to watch out for those early niggles and treat them before they become longer term problems, early intervention and time for recovery are our the best treatments. Lastly if in doubt then get the advice of a vet at the earliest opportunity.

Regards Sandymere.
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