We both work full time and Max was crate trained from the day we brought him home.

We each took a week off work (so had 2 weeks at home with him) and until he was 5 months old, I went home every lunchtime to let him out.

He isn't locked in his crate, but was in our garage (not in the dark). We sectioned off half the garage as a "safe area" for him, with his open crate, water, food, paper to wee on and his toys (and a kong).

After a couple of months, Max was able to hold it all day, and only very occasionally pee'd or poo'd on the paper.

He was locked in his crate in the kitchen at night though!

Now we've moved, Max is on his own all day, and is fine. He is locked in the kitchen whilst we are out. We've just got however a large outdoor kennel and run, which we're hoping to put up soon so he can be in that whilst we are out.

Max is now 6mths old; he "goes" on command about 90% of the time, can hold himself all day/for long-ish car journeys and is fine.

We've never had any trouble with toilet training him, even though we work all day. We have a huge garden for him to run about in, and take him on long walks on the beach at night.

We did think for a long time about having a dog whilst we both work; but the crux of the matter was that we'll never be in a position where either of us can stop work or work part-time, so if we went down that route, we'd never have a dog

I couldn't disagree with this more. In fact, it almost seems like scare tactics. "Do this and the RSPCA might get you."

There are dozens of things that a puppy needs aside from attention. Sure, in a perfect world, we'd all be able to devote twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week to our dogs. However, it's not an ideal world.

To suggest that it's cruel to home a pup and still work is an absolute slur on the many thousands (if not millions) who successfully purchase puppies, work, and still have really well-balanced dogs in the long term. Maybe it's not ideal but it's perfectly workable, and far from being cruel. I think the RSPCA are more than capable of taking a balanced view, viewing all of the other factors of a pups well-being, and making decisions based on that.

I would even go so far as to say that the troublesome and/or stressed dogs (purely by my standards I emphasise) I have witnessed are those which have been over-fed on attention, not those who have been under-fed on it!

Hi

I didn't get my first dog until I was 36 because I worked full time and didn't have the lifestyle to care for a dog properly. I do agree that people can successfully work fulltime and have a dog but only those that spend the majority of time with their dogs when they are not working. However, the real world isn't like that and most people that get a dog don't realise really how long they are leaving it on its own for. I also believe that a dog shouldn't be left on its own all day without being able to get out and have a comfort break or even have a walk. Dog walkers are readily available now and should be used if you can't get home at lunchtime!!!

Breaking time down. You get up at 7am and take the dog out before going to work. You leave for work at 8am and return at 6pm. You spend the next 4 hours with the dog and then go to bed and fido goes into his crate in the kitchen. That makes a total of 19 hours out of 24 that the dog is on his own. That is completely cruel as dogs are sentient beings and pack animals and thrive on company, be it human or canine. If you do have to go to work at least get company for the dog in the form of another dog or a pet sitter. Also, let the dog sleep in the room with you at night so that he is not along again. This brings the hours of being on their own from 19 to 10. Still not great but a hell of a lot better than 19. Anybody who is leaving their dog on their own for that amount of time each day should not have a dog as they don't have the time to commit to one. I know I wouldn't sell anybody a puppy that had that sort of treatment in mind.

If I ever had to go back to work fulltime I would certainly have a dog walker/sitter in each day for at least an hour to play with the dogs and interact with them. My dogs also sleep in the room with me so that's not a problem and the rest of the time I do things with my dogs that involve all of them. If I worked full time I could afford a dog walker. If I couldn't I wouldn't have a dog. Leaving a 6 month old puppy all day without a comfort break is IMO cruel and could lead to bladder problems at a later date. A vet saying that a dog can be left in a crate for 5.5 hours should be reported.

I have no problem with using crates as house training aids but there is no place in my life for a dog being shut in a crate all day. What did people do before the invention of crates? I agree if you want to keep something in a cage buy a hamster - not a dog!!!!

Annie

Hi Baikal I am sorry but I am not an advocate of leaving young puppies alone. I appreciate some people do and manage very well ....
.. but it is not for me and most good breeders will not sell a puppy to a person who intends to leave it alone while working full time, this is why...

The first few months of a puppy's life are the most formative, this is the time when it goes through the phase Scott and Fuller termed ''The Critical periods of psychological growth'' this includes the 'fear imprint period 'when any frightening or traumatic experience will have a more lasting effect on the puppy than if it occurred at any other time in its life.

How a puppy is treated in the first few months sets the pattern for it's entire life, this is the time a puppy learns to bond with its owner, becomes socialised with people, other dogs and the world around. Missing out any of these things can lead to problems later (like fear aggression, destructive behaviour and nervousness).

Small puppies need 4 good regular meals a day to ensure they grows to be fit and strong ,none of these should be missed out.

If you wish to house train your puppy it needs to be taken out when it shows the signs of wanting to go out like 'sniffing and circling', after every sleep/play/ and about once every hour. You need to do this consistently not just at the times when you are at home. A puppy has no control over it's bodily functions before the age of 4 month, so if you are not there to take it out you can't expect it to wait to go out. You can I suppose leave it to walk about in it's own mess and start training after four months of age when it may be able to hold on longer.

Finally I could never leave a puppy alone for long periods in a crate, I would be worried sick it was distressed or getting a paw caught in the bars. To me a crate is a useful training aid not a prison.

If you want a dog and it has to be left on a regular basis I think it is better to get an older rescue dog and to do so when you have a couple of weeks holiday to get it settled into a routine .

I know there will be people who don't agree with me , you asked for an opinion and this is just mine...

I work full-time and I got my first ever pup 3 years ago- she was 8 weeks old.I successfully housetrained her within 6 months( without a crate), got her KC Gold Good Citizen Award by the age of 2. I work 5 minutes from home so she was never left on her own for more than 3 hours. BUT......I get up at 6 AM and spend a good hour playing/training. An hour at lunch time and when I get home from work she gets my un-divided attention until bed-time. I only go out if she can go with me oh and yes she sleeps on my bed
I believe that someone working full time can bring up a pup but they have to be prepared to sacrifice time after work to spend with the dog. You know quite a few families on my street have dogs- the dog stays in the back yard, never gets taken for walks, hasn't been trained so doesnt know how to behave around people/other dogs........And these people are around all day
By the way I had a web-cam in my house from day one and could see what Minnie was up to from my work-place. She sleeps when Im out

as i have already posted early on.....i have had 3 springers in the last 12 years. 2 from pups and one as a rescue. i have had no trouble with them as regards chewing things up, and wrecking the house while i HAD to go to work. if i could choose i would love to stay at home all day but unfortunately i HAVE to work to pay bills etc! i get up at 5.30am every morning....spend a good 3/4 to 1 hour out exercising (rain, snow, sun etc)...then have a little play, or train for 10-15 mins. i leave for work at 7am and return at 3.30pm. during the day i leave my kitchen door open so the dogs have access to the garden should they choose to go outside. my neighbours are there all day and keep a check on the doglets. most of the time they are fast asleep .

i know of people that are at home all day and the dogs they own get hardly any attention, let alone get exercised. so although i'm not there with them all day....the time i spend with them is quality time.

HI there

Yes, I do think working fulltime and having dogs can be done successfully as the previous 2 posts have highlighted AND I also know that there are dogs who have people at home all day that get no attention, walks, stimulation etc. I think what the above 2 posts have highlighted is that it takes a lot of time, effort, sacrifice and discipline to have dogs and work fulltime. Its not something to be considered lightly.

An older rescue greyhound might be a good choice of dog for a person working fulltime as they are used to being in kennels on their own and can cope with periods of isolation better than a lot of dogs. They make wonderful pets and there are always lots of them around looking for good homes. Again though I would make sure the dog had company at some point during the day and have a walk and comfort break to break up the monotomy!!!

Kind regards
Annie

Yep as above Ive done it with a pup from 8 weeks- AND Ive got a Jack Russell- notorious for being destructive when bored She's had full run of the house from about a year old- NEVER had anything chewed or damaged.Believe me, when I go out to work or shop, my dog is too pooped to even think about getting up to amusing herself

Any dog shouldn't be crated for more than 3 hours at a time 5 1/2 hours is way too much, if you have to crate the dog for more than 3 hours maybe you should think twice about getting a dog at all.

I can't believe your vet has said that it is perfectly acceptable to leave a puppy crated for 5 1/2 hours, I think that is far too long.
I'm lucky that I have a breed that are very quick to housetrain, usually by the age of 4 months, though my last pup was fully housetrained by 12 weeks.
All my dogs are crated when I'm out which is never too long as I don't work and also while in the car for safety reasons. When ever I sell a puppy I will always advise that they invest in a crate more for the pups safety than anything really as they can be destructive when left. To be honest I wouldn't sell a pup to someone that worked full-time as my breed like most need early constant socialisation not just a few hours here and there.
Why don't you rehome a rescue there is plenty out there!