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Chris
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Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
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15-03-2015, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by KennyUK View Post
I'm afraid (to my shame and guilt) I did not handle his seizure very well. I didn't know what was happening to him and I became over emotional and scared.
Don't feel that way, Kenny. It's impossible not to get emotional and scared.

Fits can be harder for the onlooker who just feels helpless than the person or dog having them while they are going on. The aftermath of them, of course, is terrible for those suffering as they are so disorientated.
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KennyUK
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Location: Loughborough, UK
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16-03-2015, 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Don't feel that way, Kenny. It's impossible not to get emotional and scared.

Fits can be harder for the onlooker who just feels helpless than the person or dog having them while they are going on. The aftermath of them, of course, is terrible for those suffering as they are so disorientated.
Thanks Chris

Wise words and I know you are right.

As I look at him now he is sleeping normally right at the side of me and you would not know that anything was wrong.
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sandgrubber
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16-03-2015, 02:04 AM
As someone who is psychologically dependent on my dogs and lives alone, I would feel as panicked as you do. The others are right in saying 'take care of yourself' . . . and for Dog's sake don't get yourself evicted. You are doing the best you can. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY! You have as much and more than most people would do, you've worked with your vet. It's an awful situation, but it's not your fault.

As for practical things to do. It's probably as hard for you as it is for me . . . but it sounds like you really have to ask someone for help. Even if you've got no one and have to rely on the kindness of dog-loving strangers, or neighbors...pay someone who advertises for dog walking, or call a crisis center help line, or the RSPCA, or someone who shows they like Harvey when you take him walking. I have no close friends or relatives anywhere near . . . and it scares me something awful to think of having to do something like ask my neighbors (who I know love dogs) for help if I got into a bind like you're in. But sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. (I can't volunteer cause I'm on the other side of the Atlantic).

The other thought, and it may be something that others will say won't work, is maybe your vet can give you a sedative for Harvey, or give you an epilepsy control med that will act as a sedative. The kitchen episode sounds to me like something you don't want to repeat. My old girl who gets little seizures is on Phenobarbitol (which I can't spell). When they first put her on it they started from a fairly strong dose, and she did nothing but sleep for a couple weeks. (She is apparently epileptic and the Pheno controls her seizures. She's not taking 1/8th the dose they started her out on). I'm not a vet, and I know ****** all about what drug to use in Harvey's situation . . . but maybe your vet can recommend something to keep Harvey from going out of his head when you have to go out.
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Strangechilde
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16-03-2015, 03:04 AM
Hi Kenny, and welcome.

What you are feeling is natural and normal. Don't punish yourself over this! You're stressed and worried about poor Harvey, and you have got to look after him, but part of that is looking after yourself too. You're in a much better position to care for him if you're stronger yourself, so please look after yourself. Epilepsy in a loved one is a scary thing. That's just a fact. Don't feel like a wimp for being freaked out about it.

I've been in a similar situation: our dog suddenly having full tonic-clonic seizures. The first time it happened I panicked my a** off. But I went to the vet, I went to the books, I went on the internet, and I tried to learn to deal. You can too.

The first thing to understand is that the seizure has to play itself out. Don't restrain Harvey, but put cushions around him and keep a pile of towels close by for urine (tip: many charity shops get donations of towels, but many don't sell them. If you ask, though, they may put aside a stack for you). Light and noise can exacerbate seizures, so pull curtains and turn off radios and television. Dark and quiet is what you want.

Every epileptic dog responds to a seizure in different ways. In general, it's best to avoid touching them until they come around-- they may not recognise you, or anything, and may lash out and bite. But they may respond to your simple presence and gentle words, and as Harvey comes around, he'll feel better for your reassuring presence nearby.

There is a possibility of cluster seizures: this is when a dog (or a human, for that matter) goes into a seizure, comes out of it but does not wake up, and goes into another one soon after. This is a dangerous condition that can be fatal, but if you know what you're doing you can arrest it. Your vet can give you a dose of rectal diazepam (or valium, or whatever the brand name on it is, so long as it is a benzodiazepine) that you can give to relax him in case of clusters. It's way easier to administer up the non-toothy end. I never had to use mine, but it was a comfort to know I had it on hand if I needed it.

First and foremost: you must be calm. I know this is hard, but swallow it for Harvey. You can have the shakes later. You can be tough for him.

Seizures are extremely stressful on the body. They are exhausting, and they're frightening. That will probably be why Harvey was clinging to you so much. Your loving, protective presence will mean the world to him. Just try to be confident, too-- when he's feeling down, he'll need you to be strong, calm and collected.

You can do it. If I can, you can.
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halfpenny
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16-03-2015, 08:32 AM
Hi Kenny,
Sorry you are going through this.
Can I ask if there has been a difference in coat, appetite or his weight/ weight distribution?
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Lucky Star
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16-03-2015, 10:08 AM
Hi there

I have a 10-year-old dog who was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy before the age of 2. It is scary to see them have the grand mal fits, I know - Loki has clusters and has recently had 9 fits over a couple of days.

We now medicate with potassium bromide and phenobarbital - we were offered Pexion a short while back because of the better side effect profile than phenobarbital but decided not to because it hadn't been studied for clusters and we couldn't take the risk in leaving him without the medication.

We don't allow him upstairs for the reasons you state, such as falling down the stairs, etc. We always hear the fits so it's a case of legging downstairs when we hear them. We tried crating but he skinned his nose while having a fit when in one so we didn't carry on with it.

We went down the MRI/spinal fluid route because Loki was so young, but they came back clear so it was put down to idiopathic.

It's been years of trial and error and learning to manage things as best we can, learning from our experience, being prepared to change things and having to accept in our case, the fits will never stop. Loki's recovery now is much better with being on phenobarbital but it hasn't stopped the number of fits. He still gets them on a 4 - 6 weekly basis but he's doing really well.

We tried the ice pack but it didn't help. Hypoglycemia can cause seizures.

I've put some information below on Pexion - I hope you find something in this post to help a little, even if it's just shared experience, and I truly hope everything goes well for you and Harvey.

I wonder if your lad could be experiencing side effects from starting Pexion?

Here's some information on Pexion:

http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.j...01ac058008d7a8

"Mild and generally short-lived side effects with Pexion were polyphagia (excessive eating), hyperactivity, polyuria (increased volume of urine), polydipsia (excessive water intake), somnolence (sleepiness), hypersalivation, emesis (vomiting), ataxia (inability to coordinate muscle movements), apathy (lack of interest in surroundings), diarrhoea, prolapsed nictitating membrane (protrusion across the eye of the ‘third eyelid’), decreased sight and sensitivity to sound. For a full list of all side-effects reported with Pexion, see the package leaflet.

Pexion must not be used in dogs that are hypersensitive (allergic) to the active ingredient or to any of the ingredients. It must also not be used in dogs with severely impaired liver, kidney or heart function.

The effectiveness of Pexion to treat dogs with status epilepticus and cluster seizures has not been studied. Therefore, Pexion should not be used as a primary treatment for dogs with cluster seizures (group of seizures occurring close together) and status epilepticus (continual seizures)."

Here's some dosage info - it does say 12 hours apart:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Boeh...gs/-61206.html

And contra-indications, warnings:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Boeh...gs/-61207.html

Contra-indications, warnings, etc
Do not use in case of hypersensitivity to the active substance or to any of the excipients.
Do not use in dogs with severely impaired hepatic function, severe renal or severe cardiovascular disorders.
The pharmacological response to imepitoin may vary and efficacy may not be complete. Nevertheless imepitoin is considered to be a suitable treatment option in some dogs because of its safety profile. On treatment, some dogs will be free of seizures, in other dogs a reduction of the number of seizures will be observed, whilst others may be non-responders. In non-responders, an increase in seizure frequency may be observed. Should seizures not be adequately controlled, further diagnostic measures and other antiepileptic treatment should be considered.
The benefit/risk assessment for the individual dog should take into account the details in the product literature.
The efficacy of the veterinary medicinal product in dogs with status epilepticus and cluster seizures has not been investigated. Therefore, imepitoin should not be used as primary treatment in dogs with cluster seizures and status epilepticus. Transition to other types of antiepileptic therapy should be done gradually and with appropriate clinical supervision.
No loss of anticonvulsant efficacy (tolerance development) during continuous treatment of 4 weeks was observed in experimental studies lasting 4 weeks.
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KennyUK
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16-03-2015, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by sandgrubber View Post
As someone who is psychologically dependent on my dogs and lives alone, I would feel as panicked as you do. The others are right in saying 'take care of yourself' . . . and for Dog's sake don't get yourself evicted. You are doing the best you can. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY! You have as much and more than most people would do, you've worked with your vet. It's an awful situation, but it's not your fault.

As for practical things to do. It's probably as hard for you as it is for me . . . but it sounds like you really have to ask someone for help. Even if you've got no one and have to rely on the kindness of dog-loving strangers, or neighbors...pay someone who advertises for dog walking, or call a crisis center help line, or the RSPCA, or someone who shows they like Harvey when you take him walking. I have no close friends or relatives anywhere near . . . and it scares me something awful to think of having to do something like ask my neighbors (who I know love dogs) for help if I got into a bind like you're in. But sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. (I can't volunteer cause I'm on the other side of the Atlantic).

The other thought, and it may be something that others will say won't work, is maybe your vet can give you a sedative for Harvey, or give you an epilepsy control med that will act as a sedative. The kitchen episode sounds to me like something you don't want to repeat. My old girl who gets little seizures is on Phenobarbitol (which I can't spell). When they first put her on it they started from a fairly strong dose, and she did nothing but sleep for a couple weeks. (She is apparently epileptic and the Pheno controls her seizures. She's not taking 1/8th the dose they started her out on). I'm not a vet, and I know ****** all about what drug to use in Harvey's situation . . . but maybe your vet can recommend something to keep Harvey from going out of his head when you have to go out.
Hi sandgrubber

Thank you for your kind words and for your suggestions.

I'm sorry to hear about your girl and am I right in thinking they have managed to get her seizures under control?

yes like you I am psychologically dependent on Harvey so I know exactly what you mean.

The vet has started Harvey on Pexion as a precaution as there is just no way I can afford to have him MRI scanned, if I had the money I would do it with out even thinking about it.

He takes 400mg daily which is a tablet broken in half and fed 12 hours apart. Far too early to know if it will help but fingers crossed.
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KennyUK
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Location: Loughborough, UK
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 372
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16-03-2015, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Strangechilde View Post
Hi Kenny, and welcome.

What you are feeling is natural and normal. Don't punish yourself over this! You're stressed and worried about poor Harvey, and you have got to look after him, but part of that is looking after yourself too. You're in a much better position to care for him if you're stronger yourself, so please look after yourself. Epilepsy in a loved one is a scary thing. That's just a fact. Don't feel like a wimp for being freaked out about it.

I've been in a similar situation: our dog suddenly having full tonic-clonic seizures. The first time it happened I panicked my a** off. But I went to the vet, I went to the books, I went on the internet, and I tried to learn to deal. You can too.

The first thing to understand is that the seizure has to play itself out. Don't restrain Harvey, but put cushions around him and keep a pile of towels close by for urine (tip: many charity shops get donations of towels, but many don't sell them. If you ask, though, they may put aside a stack for you). Light and noise can exacerbate seizures, so pull curtains and turn off radios and television. Dark and quiet is what you want.

Every epileptic dog responds to a seizure in different ways. In general, it's best to avoid touching them until they come around-- they may not recognise you, or anything, and may lash out and bite. But they may respond to your simple presence and gentle words, and as Harvey comes around, he'll feel better for your reassuring presence nearby.

There is a possibility of cluster seizures: this is when a dog (or a human, for that matter) goes into a seizure, comes out of it but does not wake up, and goes into another one soon after. This is a dangerous condition that can be fatal, but if you know what you're doing you can arrest it. Your vet can give you a dose of rectal diazepam (or valium, or whatever the brand name on it is, so long as it is a benzodiazepine) that you can give to relax him in case of clusters. It's way easier to administer up the non-toothy end. I never had to use mine, but it was a comfort to know I had it on hand if I needed it.

First and foremost: you must be calm. I know this is hard, but swallow it for Harvey. You can have the shakes later. You can be tough for him.

Seizures are extremely stressful on the body. They are exhausting, and they're frightening. That will probably be why Harvey was clinging to you so much. Your loving, protective presence will mean the world to him. Just try to be confident, too-- when he's feeling down, he'll need you to be strong, calm and collected.

You can do it. If I can, you can.
Hi Strangechilde

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such kind words and great advice which I will try and follow.

Its so b****y hard
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KennyUK
Dogsey Senior
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Location: Loughborough, UK
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 372
Male 
 
16-03-2015, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by halfpenny View Post
Hi Kenny,
Sorry you are going through this.
Can I ask if there has been a difference in coat, appetite or his weight/ weight distribution?
Hi halfpenny

No difference in his coat but his appetite is way up, constantly asking for food, his weight seems Okay but to me he looks a little thinner.
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KennyUK
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Location: Loughborough, UK
Joined: Mar 2015
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16-03-2015, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
Hi there
Hi Lucky Star

I am sorry to read about your dog and your experiences.

I cant imagine what it must be like to see cluster fits, I would freak out I know I would and I hope Loki is feeling better?



That information and links re; Pexion was great, thank you for kindly doing that.

I am hoping that Harvey is just having a few of the side effects (increased thirst and hunger) and hopefully they will settle down over time.

Its the tremors and seizures that worry me most.

Interesting that you tried the Ice pack thing, it was just something that I came across while desperately searching for info but then when no one has heard of it in the forum you think well maybe its quackery.

Just so you know, I found a lot in this post a help

In-fact I'm finding a lot of help in everybody's posts, what a supportive bunch you all are and thank you everyone.
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