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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
No, sadly the Bill has gone through the ammendments stage and is now finalised.

There are many other factets to this Bill, and the opportunity to make changes in our treatment of animals (eg in Greyhound racing and puppy farming) has sadly been missed.

I started a thread on it here -

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=48674
I suspect it won't be long beiore more legislation is developed though Pod, I think this may just be the beginning...
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pod
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16-11-2006, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I suspect it won't be long beiore more legislation is developed though Pod, I think this may just be the beginning...
Hmmm.... I wouldn't hold your breath. It's been almost a century since the previous reform
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 12:56 PM
You could be right Pod, but there has been animal welfare legislation passed in the meantime.
I think we are, as a nation, becoming more aware of these things which does always lead to some change in the law.

Personally, I look forward to seeing undocked breeds in the show ring and on the streets as that is when public opinion of the breeds will change.
Just as an example...and I know I may be launched upon for this...but how many members of the public would be intimidated (thanks to bad press etc) by a rotti just minding it's own bsuiness...happily sniffing whilst on a walk??? Picture the scene with an undocked rotti...wagging it's tail whilst walking...doesn't look quite so scary huh???? Another good reason not to dock IMO as it can only do breeds like the rotti good...

*Steps back and waits for the onslaught!!!*
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Borderdawn
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16-11-2006, 01:35 PM
What a shame folk see it like that, thought England was a free country? Bloody load of busy body do gooders, drives me nuts, so very UNproud to be British now, more thought on emigrating me thinks.
Dawn.
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
What a shame folk see it like that, thought England was a free country? Bloody load of busy body do gooders, drives me nuts, so very UNproud to be British now, more thought on emigrating me thinks.
Dawn.
It'svery hard to read a docked dogs signals though Dawn, especially if you don't 'know' dogs...but a dog wagging a tail (okay I knw tail up and rigid, fast wags...different...) but generally...a wagging tail is taken to mean happy dog... non dog people will find it easier to 'read' some breeds, that's all I'm saying.
As for emmigrating, there's lots of countries that have banned docking now..
Free country??? Yes we are, but sometimes, animal welfare has to come first and all the veidence suugests tail docking is 'mutilation' (vets words) and that it hurts the animal. What 'choice' do they have?
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Borderdawn
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16-11-2006, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
It'svery hard to read a docked dogs signals though Dawn, especially if you don't 'know' dogs...but a dog wagging a tail (okay I knw tail up and rigid, fast wags...different...) but generally...a wagging tail is taken to mean happy dog... non dog people will find it easier to 'read' some breeds, that's all I'm saying.
As for emmigrating, there's lots of countries that have banned docking now..
Free country??? Yes we are, but sometimes, animal welfare has to come first and all the veidence suugests tail docking is 'mutilation' (vets words) and that it hurts the animal. What 'choice' do they have?
WHAT? Ever met a SBT that DOESNT wag its tail before it launces an attack? its not often they raise their hackles either. Betcha aint you know! Akitas remain unchanged in their looks and mood before attacking, so do Chows, they rarely growl, or raise a lip. Labradors are very waggy dogs, yet are among the worst breeds for attacking dogs whilst out, look how many you read of on here that have problems with Black Labs, yet they are waggy dogs. I think a dog is best read by its face and voice not its tail, especially when some are naturally bobbed anyway, these dogs dont seem to have any problems "communicating".

Southern Ireland for me kid, tis lovely and free!! no dictatorial do-gooders out there.
Dawn.
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
WHAT? Ever met a SBT that DOESNT wag its tail before it launces an attack? its not often they raise their hackles either. Betcha aint you know! Akitas remain unchanged in their looks and mood before attacking, so do Chows, they rarely growl, or raise a lip. Labradors are very waggy dogs, yet are among the worst breeds for attacking dogs whilst out, look how many you read of on here that have problems with Black Labs, yet they are waggy dogs. I think a dog is best read by its face and voice not its tail, especially when some are naturally bobbed anyway, these dogs dont seem to have any problems "communicating".
Dawn.
I did say though, that I meant in general...I mentioned an erect, fast wagging tail could indicate a problem. Labradors tails will be erect and wagging very stiffly if they are being in any way aggressive or dominant, but a relaxed tail, generally means chilled dog...A dog like an akita has a raised tail anyway... making it more difficult to 'read'. Dogs can and do communicate a great deal through their tails and I have to say, when I see a dog approaching when out, I use their tail carriage as one,quite important, indication of their intentions, infact, unless the dog is obviously snarling and growling, then it is the first and main thing I look at in order to judge a situation. If I see a lab, plodding along in a labbish manner, :smt001 with a relaxed tail carriage, I know things will probably be ok, if I se a lab 'trotting,' with an erect, fast moving, rigid tail...I call my dogs back to me. The tail, is a very good indication of mood, in the majority of breeds. (There will always be exceptions to the rule). :smt002
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crazycockers
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16-11-2006, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Just out of interest, what do those who are against docking feel about dew claws being removed?

Don't have them removed.
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Trouble
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16-11-2006, 03:02 PM
My dogs are docked and have their dewclaws removed, I actually find it laughable that anyone thinks it is impossible for my dogs to show their happiness because they don't have tails, and as for the fallacy of the plodding waggy labrador Syd was attacked by 2 black plodding waggy labs the other day, was that because they misread his body language? was it hell, it was because they were running loose out of control with an owner who couldn't give a toss, Luckily for them and their owner me and my dogs are better able to read doggy body language with or without a tail that's wagging.
My dogs are and always have been just family pets, so I don't see it as necessary that they have their tails docked just my personal preference, and I will continue with the breed of my choice even if all future dogs have tails.
I do however agree with Dawn that it is just more unnecessary interferance from a government incapable of dealing with the big issues in this country, fiddling while rome burns.
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duboing
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16-11-2006, 03:07 PM
I've got mixed feelings on this, and I certainly think an opportunity's been missed regarding legislation on puppy farming. On the other hand, I look forward to my next Irish terrier having a full and glorious tail, and regardless of the legislation, if we breed from Bongo, her pups would not have been docked.

Of course it's not a free country. There are loads of things we're not allowed to do: drink-driving, burglary, beating children, duelling etc... I prefer it this way
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