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Jet&Copper
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27-07-2012, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
Just out of interest, why CANNOT a breeder insist on you neutering a dog you purchase from them? Surely if it is part of a sale contract agreed by both parties at the outset, this would be no different from the contract entered when a dog is 'adopted' from a rescue?

I can see why most breeders 'would not' for various reasons, but I'm not sure about the 'could not'?
I actually do know of one breeder, she breeds cairn terriers, and she insists her dogs are neutered when sold. I guess how could you really enforce it but I know she is very particular about who she sells pups too.
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Jet&Copper
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27-07-2012, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by runningrabbit View Post
Research (sample size 10,800 odd dogs) showing that neutering dogs increases incidences of aggression: http://www.vizslacanada.ca/SNBehavio...taSnapShot.pdf.
Do you have the full text of this students thesis, or are you just believing it without seeing the full extent of the study. I ask because with a quick glance over it I can already see many points that fall apart upon investigation?

If you have the full text I would rather read it first before commenting on this quick summary.
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Azz
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27-07-2012, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by runningrabbit View Post
Paper showing that female dogs left unspayed until over the age of 4yo will likely live an exceptionally long life, due to 'ovary exposure': http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...5/?tool=pubmed

Research (sample size 10,800 odd dogs) showing that neutering dogs increases incidences of aggression: http://www.vizslacanada.ca/SNBehavio...taSnapShot.pdf

Neutering male dogs increases prostate cancer risk by 4x: http://www.dogcancerblog.com/bladder...reases-risk-2/

I could go on. The research is there. Just no one is applying it.

Lastly, just because it is good for the species as a whole for there to be less dogs, doesn't mean that it is good for the individual dog to be neutered: The two things are not the same.

It is good for the human species for there to be less people on the planet. But I'm not throwing myself off a cliff or getting myself sterilised, because that's not in my own individual interests. I don't want to sacrifice the interests of my own individual dogs for the entire canine species.

Although I would never breed from any rescue dog, I can never own a rescue - because it will come neutered, and I want to have all of my dog. Including its sexuality.

PS I am not against neutering for medical reasons, or when all other behavioural approaches have been tried, obviously. Only as a default 'for everyone' thing.

Another good post.

I am not against neutering for health reasons either, nor safer neutering methods at the right age - such as the canine equivalent of a vasectomy, which does not interfere with testosterone production or is subject to the same risk of diseases such as cancer, that you get with castration.
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ClaireandDaisy
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27-07-2012, 05:36 PM
Maybe because I started my working life with riding horses, and the males are routinely gelded, I am used to the idea of neutering domestic or working animals. If you are keeping multiple mixed sex groups it is a good way to eliminate breeding and sexual aggression.
I therefore don`t have a problem with neutering males, provided it is done when the dog is mature, and when there are no behavioural contra-indications.
If the owner is happy to supervise the un-neutered male at all times to prevent breeding, I have no problem with that. It can have some impact on socialation however.
I have 2 neutered and 1 un-neutered males.
I think it is up to the owner, and is a decision that needs to be made individually for each dog. I do, however, totally understand why Rescues castrate dogs before rehoming.
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Jet&Copper
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27-07-2012, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Azz, could you address the points I made re the studies you cited please.

Thanks

rune
In case you missed this Azz
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labradork
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27-07-2012, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
Completely agree with Smokey ^^

Also, as have been discussed recently on Dogsey, there are far better, safer ways to 'neuter' dogs (castration isn't the only option!) and I can't see why anyone who cares about dogs, would not choose a safer method.
Azz, are you seriously implying that anyone who chooses to neuter their pet dog doesn't care?

Are the alternative methods of castration recommended by the RCVS? are they widespread in use at all? in what way are they safer? I am guessing you must have personal experience in these alternative surgeries and their results.
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Azz
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27-07-2012, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
In case you missed this Azz
Stop hounding people for replies. It's up to the individual poster to choose which post or which person they would or would not like to reply to.
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Azz
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27-07-2012, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Azz, are you seriously implying that anyone who chooses to neuter their pet dog doesn't care?
No, because not all neutering methods suffer the same risks as castration
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Jet&Copper
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27-07-2012, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
Stop hounding people for replies. It's up to the individual poster to choose which post or which person they would or would not like to reply to.
Aye ok calm down I thought as it was on the page before you might have missed it. Apologies I mistakenly believed you wanted to discuss this topic properly.
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labradork
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27-07-2012, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
No, because not all neutering methods suffer the same risks as castration.
Could you please elaborate on the risks associated with neutering MATURE (18+ months of age) dogs? because the vast, vast majority of studies citing risks associated with neutering concern the neutering of prepubescence males. I have read little to nothing that states there are anything other than minor, insignificant risks in neutering mature males. However I am happy to be proven wrong.
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