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Dobermann
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01-06-2011, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
You see I have never found that to be the case. All the top triallists and competitor in Schutzhund and Working Trials are always very helpful to each other in my personal experience.

I cannot speak for other disciplines.
tbh I'm going by people I have met etc that I really did pick this up from......but in no way am I saying ALL persons involved in dog sports are like this...

I do agree with what you said in an earlier post though, whatever the proffession people will disagree etc and that does not mean its personal attack. (although there will be some without 'scruples')

I was in a very different profession and I am insulted and disapointed in the lack of skill shown by representatives of the profession in my area and the attitude of some of them with clients, and towards others, if you are good enough at what you do, that speaks for itself!
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SarahJade
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01-06-2011, 01:53 PM
I am not a 'real' trainer but I do help out at our local puppy class and KCGC classes, and I have to say the women who runs them is great. I know as part of the puppy school scheme she is in touch with many trainers around the country and I have never herd her slate another trainer.
That said before helping her out Cookie had many issues, and we were recommended 'Bark Busters' and the woman who came from their could only slate others. She gave some dreadful advice which only made poor Cookie even more fearful and worse. I hate myself when I think what I did to him following her advice, it really makes me cry, but I thought she was right and this would help him. I have to say as an owner I feel the right to tell anyone who will listen about the methods which they recommended but at class I do not mention it at all.
I have also told the woman I help out and while she disagreed with the methods all she said was different people have different opinions, but she is glad I gave up the techniques after a couple of weeks and eventually I found her.
So IMO it depends on the person, and their example of what they should be doing. After meeting the new trainer I hope to become a trainer, but I know now I will never slate another, just explain why I don't like those techniques if people really want to know. That is what we should be doing.
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ClaireandDaisy
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01-06-2011, 02:01 PM
I was under the impression that you`re a professional if you get paid what what you do (as opposed to an amateur) .
This is different to the `Professions` (as opposed to Trades). The Professions generally have a recognised ladder of qualifications and a regulating body. And usually a method of admonishing their members - as a Doctor can be struck off, or a priest unfrocked.
Unfortunately, Dog behaviourists do not have the above.
One day perhaps...
BTW I`ve never heard a trainer or behaviourist slag off another. The most I`ve heard is a refusal to comment when asked.
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Wysiwyg
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01-06-2011, 02:11 PM
I think the real professionals tend to not be rude about others, which is good, but occasionally this can be to the detriment of the dog or owner. Let me explain.

A dog owner contacted a trainer recently who was going on a training course, so she suggested another local trainer, whom she trusted to use sensible and kind techniques. However, meanwhile, the owners had, they said, found someone else a bit closer, and they'd go with him.

A few weeks later, they rang the trainer who had come back on holiday in tears, saying their puppy had been hurt during a training class, and they really wish that they'd gone to the second trainer that had been actually recommended. In this case, the first trainer (the one who had been on holiday) had known that the trainer the owners had chosen was not very good, but had felt that professionallly they could not really say anything

I think that sometimes too, there is a huge divide between "camps" such as shock collar, prong collar etc and reward based and so on - I think this is almost inevitable because those who tend to promote shock collars are seen as being literally abusive, and of course those who argue against them do feel very passionate about ending dog abuse in the name of training.

I have argued against shock collars but also have been friendly with one shock collar trainer, (as have some others on here who are positive) because he was truly open to other kinds of training and did not push his collar, although he explained how it worked and what he did. We all used to discuss training issues on a private forum and even shared photos of our dogs!

It was nice because there was genuine respect and liking on both sides, BUT he was not your typical shock collar merchant and was totally genuine. In fact, he suffered when it was fond out that he was talking to "the opposition".

Not sure if you had any particular scenarios in mind?

Wys
x
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Moon's Mum
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01-06-2011, 03:21 PM
In my experience I have found that many dog trainers are set in their ways and while perhaps won't slag off another, will raise eyebrows, pull faces and say "well I certainly wouldn't do it like that" when another trainers methods are raised. Quite often it seems a minute difference to me and both get equally good results, yet both are adamant that their way is better. I have a couple of excellent dog trainers and while they will always discuss their methods if questioned, you can pick up on the subtle undertone that they are confident in their method and have no real intention of considering another way. But that's just my personal experience.

I once got told that "the only thing dog trainers agree on is that they are right, and everyone else is wrong!"
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leadstaffs
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01-06-2011, 03:50 PM
There are a lot of people out there calling themselves trainers and behaviourists who have a cheek calling themselves professionals.
Maybe these are the ones who feel the need to put others down in order to make themselves feel better.

I guess it will happen while anyone can set them selves up as a dog trainer or behaviourist without any training or proof of competence.
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SarahJade
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01-06-2011, 03:51 PM
I can understand why some trainers may hold their tongue, but to me if these dogs are going to suffer as Cookie did then I would much rather that these owners know about the positive options first.
The main reason that I stopped the training with Cookie was that I was watching an episode of something on TV and an RSPCA inspector was called to a house where an old man used a belt to 'discipline' his dogs. All he did was act like he was going to hit them, maybe hit the floor under their feet or the wall above their heads. The inspector told him he had to stop as it was animal abuse and cruelty and if he was seen doing it again he would lose his dogs. The 'trainer' we had spent £200 on for life time cover had us throwing water bombs so they would splash in his face, and throwing chains between his front legs. All this did was stop him warning the other dogs to do away, he became more dangerous as we thought he was getting better but he would just snap without any warning we could see. This is why I think positive trainers should be able to speak out about such training methods. This is why I think that personal level slander is wrong, the methods are wrong, not the people. IMO they just need educating, they need to see the light as it were.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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01-06-2011, 03:58 PM
Currently I am a driving instructor and one of the earliest things we are taught in our training is not to sl@g off other instructors

We hear some pretty horrific stories from pupils but I find it best just to say something along the lines of 'I wasnt there at that time so I cannot comment on why they said that, but for now this is how I will be teaching this bit, I find it works for me because x'

You are just waisting everyones time and money to try and make yourselves look good by making other people look bad, better to just show your method
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Dobermann
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01-06-2011, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Currently I am a driving instructor and one of the earliest things we are taught in our training is not to sl@g off other instructors

We hear some pretty horrific stories from pupils but I find it best just to say something along the lines of 'I wasnt there at that time so I cannot comment on why they said that, but for now this is how I will be teaching this bit, I find it works for me because x'
You are just waisting everyones time and money to try and make yourselves look good by making other people look bad, better to just show your method
I think thats the point whatever the profession. Capability and skills will speak for themselves because you have 1. a proper explanation of WHY and 2. results speak for themselves.

so there isnt a need to sl@g people off if you have the above
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