KB - am working in it lol!!!

Aceness!

Im re reading all the doggy books/training guides I can find!

Ahhhh, stick.... wrong end then for me!!!

As I said then, this isn't allowed to happen in the world of the real professionals (aka solicitors, doctors, vets and suchlike) and I'm sure it doesn't, they probably have great respect for one another even if some of their actions might raise a few eyebrows within that profession, they certainly wouldn't slate said person.

I guess then, they're going for the one-upmanship score like you said, and they think the more damage they can do to that person, it'll be one less for them to worry about taking more business off them! Correct?

I should imagine it's also a very competitive world like the dog showing fraternity, the horse competitions etc. afterall you are competing against one another for business, and it IS the dog world, so it goes without saying really I suppose there's going to be a bit of bitching going on. Don't think you'll ever change it though.

In a way, are you not slagging off the professionals slagging off the professionals? Human nature, not everyone is professional 100% of the time. If you heard some of the things that come out of the word of the financial director when he puts the phone down on someone here....
Sadly you get people who are in the dog training scene for the financial side of it and are effectively very good sales people, I've heard some right speil from someone trying to promote e-collars slagging off every positive-reinforcement-based trainer by saying they leave you in the lurch with no support. Common sense seemed to leave the person he was talking to as they were nodding along in total agreement without stopping to think that this guy's views were probably a bit bias, but they can have a very persistant convincing manner to them. If you can convince someone that such a broad range of trainers are all in the wrong, you've got yourself a customer, and they go on to repeat this speil and you have another customer, and another, and so on. Plus you get people who just enjoy slagging people off to make themselves feel better.

are dog trainers not real professionals then?

They're not classed as professionals in the same way a doctor, lawyer, vet, etc are no! These are "professions", whereas a hairdresser is not, same as a dog walker, dog trainer is not. You can be a professional dog trainer, but it is not classed as A profession per se.

This sort of behaviour is unprofessional in the extreme though, not only in dog training instructors but ANY sort of profession.

I remember some time ago somebody started a thread about wanting some funny stories about clients, I said that I knew of plenty but I would not breach client confidentiality.

Because when someone comes to you for help, it does not matter if you are a solicitor, teacher, DTI, doctor, manager etc you do not denigrate another's approach as a professional courtesy.

You have already mentioned the issues of how some owners can misinterpret advice, be selective in what they hear & apply etc but taking that out of the equation, the relationship with a dog trainer is akin, IMV to any sort of 1:1 professional relationship be it with a doctor, dentist, hairdresser or DTI.

The SKATE issue is key, but further it is the chemistry that you do or do not have with that individual. It does not necessarily mean that one trainer is BETTER than another, just that you gel with one more than another.

Perhaps you share the same sense of humour, perhaps you have a lot of other things in common; there are a myriad of factors which can make or break a good relationship; none of which reflect the capability of the individual concerned.

I know I have trained, judged, competed with many people with whom I agree to differ on many things. This does not mean we do not treat each other with respect; as one very well known individual once observed “you do not have to sleep with that person” so it is no different than say working with colleagues at your place of business.

You may not like some of them, you may not respect some of them, you may even actively dislike some of them, but you extend to them the professional courtesy you would expect for yourself.

Many of us attend CPD courses, seminars etc with fellow professionals with whom we might not wish to spend a 24 hour trip on a plane, but individual personalities aside, I usually find that as we have one thing in common, ie to get the best out of dogs and partnerships there are more commonalities than differences.

No ONE person has all the answers and I like the Mantra of one professional organisation which is Teach so you may Learn because as a teacher/trainer of ANYTHING you are LEARNING all the time, or you should be.

I recently attended a week long Teacher Training Course with fellow Teachers/Trainers and we ALL learned HUGE amounts from each other and the tutor and about ourselves.

What I dislike intensely are those who resort to meaningless personal insults rather than debating the concepts under discussion.

I can disagree with my colleagues, subordinates, peers, friends quite robustly without losing their respect and friendship because we are discussing the value of the idea/subject not each other.

In my experience those who are hell bent on attacking others are usually doing so because they are insecure as individuals or in their knowledge.

I have had clients come to me after being to Mr X or Mrs Y and I have interrupted any personal attacks with "well this is taking up my valuable time and your valuable money and there is no point in talking about then, let us talk about now"

because some dont want to 'give away their secrets' whilst competing gainst each other at a high level in trials etc? (at least some are..)

You see I have never found that to be the case. All the top triallists and competitor in Schutzhund and Working Trials are always very helpful to each other in my personal experience.

I cannot speak for other disciplines.

people can disagree with others in the same profession if they can also give good reason