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Ramble
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12-01-2010, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
I think in ALL Dogs a mixiture of the following is ideal.

1. Training on walks, Involving alot of Play
2.Mental stimulation in the house & out & about
3. Lead walking, to aid feet & Nails & good Manners
4. Off lead running & being dogs
5.off lead one to one walks & pack walks
6.learning to settle in the home

Mine get a mixture of the above , not all everyday. Too much free running can be a rod for your own back & can make you seem un important. Mine are pretty well balanced, nuts but well balance.
i suppose it depends what you want out of your dog.

Obvisley the above would depend on the physical state of the dog & what it required.

With a dog that needed work i would do lots of one 2 one walks, with play & training, Building up to Flexi walking, long line training & off lead training in a safe area such as tennis courts, working up to off lead work with a steady dog with a good recall.
Great post again Mish. I agree.
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Wozzy
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12-01-2010, 02:04 PM
I very much feel for dogs who have to stay on lead all their lives simply because owners havent done sufficient training. Obviously there are other reasons dogs are on lead such as aggression or a medical condition and under these circumstances thats fine. There are a couple of neighbouring dogs who never come off a lead and it's purely because the owners have never dared to and this is a shame.

I'm a firm believer that dogs do need a bloomin good run to burn off their energy. Yes, I agree that mental stimulation is also important but IMO, it only equals physical stimulation, it doesnt surpass it.

My dogs are very rarely on a lead, this is the way I prefer it but they are not free to do what they like. All have a very high prey drive and so spend alot of time hunting, following scents etc which combines brain work with leg work but it is always controlled and they follow my directions. I'm not saying they wont give chase if they put out a rabbit but they dont disappear and they come back when whistled.

However, they are more than happy to swap their hunting for a game or various training so i'm fortunate to have dogs who have high prey drives but they are capable of switching it on and off when asked. My OH's dog isnt capable of switching off her hunting, she doesnt know to do anything else on a walk and is one of those who is let off a lead and she does as she likes and it's a hotly debated topic between the two of us!

Dogs are natural athletes, they are predators who are born to run and denying them this through lack of training IMO is wrong. I believe dogs have an innate need to exercise vigourously (some breeds more than others) but at the same time, it needs to be structured.
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Hali
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12-01-2010, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Okay...the stress thing. Stress here taken to mean hyper with high adrenalin levels.
If a dog is free run in a park regularly (or the same field) it develops an expectation on the way to said field/park. It's excitement level begins to rise. Often this can be triggered just by the owner putting on their shoes.
When the dog arrives at the park and the lead is unclipped there is then a surge of adrenalin...which is fed throughout the walk as the dog does something exciting/rewarding. When dogs meet up in the park for a play then, they do so when they are hyped and that is often why problems can arise with recall and social interaction.
Of course not all 'stress' is bad stress and some stress is actually good for you...but it can take a while for the dog's adrenalin levels to settle just as it can for us. Too much adrenalin too often isn't good.

I am not saying that dogs that are free run all the time are neurotic nightmares that are 'stressed out man' but often dogs that are free run all the time are hyped and display other issues.

I was sceptical myself when I first heard this, but having tried things out with Cosmo...I now totally believe it. Ideally for him he would be offlead and chasing a toy the whole walk....thing is the more he does it the more hyped he gets and the less tired he is after walks.We can walk and run him more and more but his adrenalin levels get so high he finds it harder and harder to settle. Now we think more about the type of walks he gets and he is much happier (not that he wasn't already).

I know it is a concept people won't like as I didn't initially...but truly there is something in it.I am NOT saying dogs should not be exercised offlead because they get stressed, but I am saying that a) some dogs are better not being exercised offlead and b) being exercised in the same way everyday in the same place even if it is offlead is not necessarily better for a dog than an onlead walk. Not ALL offlead exercise is good....just like not all onlead exercise is good.


The question is do dogs NEED offlead exercise and my answer is NO. They need food, water, shelter and comanionship/training and exercise. What they need is a quality walk...be it onlead or off.
I always associate stress with anxiousness rather than excitement, so not sure that I would agree with using it in this context, but I'd certainly agree that dogs can become too hyper under certain conditions and that this could include off lead walking but I think equally could include on-lead walking judging by the number of hyped dogs I see on extendable leads. It can also include agility, flyball, terrier racing etc. as many dogs get very hyped up before these.

I did say that off-lead exercise was needed as part of a balanced life and I still maintain that a good run is a great way for a dog to unwind.

(BTW, the question in the title was actually do dogs need a good run, not quite the same as offlead walking)

Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Great post again Mish. I agree.
Even with her point 4?
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Ramble
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12-01-2010, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
I always associate stress with anxiousness rather than excitement, so not sure that I would agree with using it in this context, but I'd certainly agree that dogs can become too hyper under certain conditions and that this could include off lead walking but I think equally could include on-lead walking judging by the number of hyped dogs I see on extendable leads. It can also include agility, flyball, terrier racing etc. as many dogs get very hyped up before these.

I did made the point about it thinking that off-lead exercise was needed as part of a balanced life and I still maintain that a good run is a great way for a dog to unwind.

(BTW, the question in the title was actually do dogs need a good run, not quite the same as offlead walking)



Even with her point 4?
Yes even with point 4, dependant on the dog.What she outlines is exactly what I try to do with Cosmo.
Dogs do not NEED a good run..it's nice if they can have it but many manage to have a happy and fulfilled life.
What they need is an owner who fulfills the individual dogs needs. That's totally different.

Cosmo can live without a good run...but I like to give him one, it makes me feel better. Not sure it makes him feel better, he is noticeably less tired after a 'good run' than he is after a walk sniffing around onlead. He may be panting after a good run...but it doesn't last long he is soon up and at 'em again and is normally hyper immediately after the run when we get in. He is calm after a walk sniffing and being a 'dog' onlead.

After agility he is high as a kite and exhausted and I don't let him offlead the next day as he has been so hyper....

It is ideally about balance and understanding your own dog but to the question do they NEED a good run...I have to say no...they don't. It's nice for them and it is another thing to do with them...but they don't need it.They NEED food and water and shelter, training and companionship and exercise.
Dogs that do not get to run are not necassarily hard done to...dogs that are allowed to run are not necessarily being treated well.
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AmyH-Cornwall
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12-01-2010, 02:18 PM
I think that all dogs (if possible) should be allowed off-lead for a good run! I have a 13-week old Beagle and even at his age I try to let him have some off-lead time! I also think the younger the better to start off-lead training! Before the dog becomes more independent! Having a Beagle I know I have to be extra careful with him being off the lead, but I definately notice the difference in him after a road walk and him exploring our local field! I also beleive they interact better with other dogs off-lead!

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honeysmummy
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12-01-2010, 02:27 PM
Well I think you will always get the people who do not let their dogs off saying "No" and the people who do will say "Yes"!

I love seeing my dogs run. I can now say that my Greyhounds recall is Fantastic....tho at the beginning I didnt know if he would be able to be an off lead dog and I am obviously careful where I let him off but I do not see that because he is a Hound he should have to have his life on a lead.

As others have said there are always ways round dogs that have problems.i.e. Finding an enclosed area, channeling dogs skills in other ways and mentally tiring them out too.

However i often think it is an owners lack of experience/common sense that can lead to a dogs lifetime on the lead (obviously not all dogs). No offense intended. Btw my dogs have I would say 60% off lead 40% on lead and I think it is important dogs have manners to do both well!
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Ramble
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12-01-2010, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by honeysmummy View Post
Well I think you will always get the people who do not let their dogs off saying "No" and the people who do will say "Yes"!

I love seeing my dogs run. I can now say that my Greyhounds recall is Fantastic....tho at the beginning I didnt know if he would be able to be an off lead dog and I am obviously careful where I let him off but I do not see that because he is a Hound he should have to have his life on a lead.

As others have said there are always ways round dogs that have problems.i.e. Finding an enclosed area, channeling dogs skills in other ways and mentally tiring them out too.

However i often think it is an owners lack of experience/common sense that can lead to a dogs lifetime on the lead (obviously not all dogs). No offense intended. Btw my dogs have I would say 60% off lead 40% on lead and I think it is important dogs have manners to do both well!
I agree with the last part of this paragraph....but not the first part...yes with SOME dogs it is down to owner problems...but not with all. There are a few people on here with dog aggressive rescues is it their fault they can't let their dogs off? I know you said not everyone...but it does suggest you think the majority of dogs that are onlead are onlead because of the owners inexperience. Often I see it being the other way around, it is the experienced handlers that have their dogs onlead whilst they try to train their learned behaviours out of them.

I do agree though that it is about balance in the ideal world.
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honeysmummy
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12-01-2010, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I agree with the last part of this paragraph....but not the first part...yes with SOME dogs it is down to owner problems...but not with all. There are a few people on here with dog aggressive rescues is it their fault they can't let their dogs off? I know you said not everyone...but it does suggest you think the majority of dogs that are onlead are onlead because of the owners inexperience. Often I see it being the other way around, it is the experienced handlers that have their dogs onlead whilst they try to train their learned behaviours out of them.

I do agree though that it is about balance in the ideal world.
Hi Ramble

Not neccessarily the majority of dog owners who are too inexperienced to let their dogs off but I do think it is alot!!! Saying that I never judge a dog I see on a lead or its owner cos I know there could be many reasons for it, but have also had several conversations with a few numpties who I am sure their dogs could be trained off lead.
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Hali
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12-01-2010, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Yes even with point 4, dependant on the dog.What she outlines is exactly what I try to do with Cosmo.
Dogs do not NEED a good run..it's nice if they can have it but many manage to have a happy and fulfilled life.
What they need is an owner who fulfills the individual dogs needs. That's totally different.

Cosmo can live without a good run...but I like to give him one, it makes me feel better. Not sure it makes him feel better, he is noticeably less tired after a 'good run' than he is after a walk sniffing around onlead. He may be panting after a good run...but it doesn't last long he is soon up and at 'em again and is normally hyper immediately after the run when we get in. He is calm after a walk sniffing and being a 'dog' onlead.

After agility he is high as a kite and exhausted and I don't let him offlead the next day as he has been so hyper....

It is ideally about balance and understanding your own dog but to the question do they NEED a good run...I have to say no...they don't. It's nice for them and it is another thing to do with them...but they don't need it.They NEED food and water and shelter, training and companionship and exercise.
Dogs that do not get to run are not necassarily hard done to...dogs that are allowed to run are not necessarily being treated well.
Do they also NEED mental stimulation?
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Ramble
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12-01-2010, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by honeysmummy View Post
Hi Ramble

Not neccessarilary the majority of dog owners who are too inexperienced to let their dogs off but I do think it is alot!!! Saying that I never judge a dog I see on a lead or its owner cos I know theere could be many reasons for it, but have also had several conversations with a few numpties who I am sure their dogs could be trained off lead.
I see.

Mind you....so many people say to us 'why don't you let her off?' when Tango has ahd a positive meeting with their big dog. Funnily enough it is never the owner of a small fluffy dog that she has floored when it has charged at her...
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