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Location: UK
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Posts: 13,122
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21-11-2008, 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by elaineb 
If your still not convinced then does this ring any bells. circa Germany 1930'40's?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-20722309/
Other legal political parties in the UK dont have such restrictions in place... so to single one out is abusing our rights to democracy.
If the BMP is constantly breaking laws and not abiding by the law of the land, then they should be outlawed...but they are not they are legit...and that is all it boils down to.
They have the same rights as any other.... till the day comes when they dont... you cant penalise member/supporters for their legal right to vote or work
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Location: england
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,601
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21-11-2008, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
The BMP, is not an organization, it is a legitimate political party...and such will have the same rights as every other political party.
Would you feel the same "conflict of interest" if ........
A Catholic teacher was teaching in a Muslim school... a CE teacher taught in a Catholic school..
Or a Left wing Labour member was in the police force, or anyone with a strong religious/political view in a public position....
Why should anyone's political/religious view stand in the way of their career.... if they keep it out of the classroom.
Now anyone using their political stand to influence people is a different matter, you are not them doing your job proberly..i.e education/ police/ health.
We still live in a country of free speech, and democracy... and to outlaw anyone for their legal political views is not what we are about.
If Mr...???? down the road belongs to the BMP or any other party and he is a pllar of society and does not take his political vies into work..why should he be ousted or banned from doing the job he is good at.
I would not feel the same if a muslim teacher was teaching in a catholic school etc because being muslim does not neccesarily mean that you do not like catholics. The whole thing about the BNP is tht they do not want imigrants in the country and think that the rights of the white british should come before the others.
Whether you see it as a legitimate party or not being part of a party that is inherently racists does not bode well for being in jobs where you should genuinly like and respect all "types" people you deal with taking them as individuals.
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Location: england
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21-11-2008, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
That is is a huge generalisation,
Because you dont know EVERY SINGLE MEMBER is like that. taking it to work with them and acting on it are two different things.
And the simple fact is..........THEY ARE LEGAL!!!!!!!!! so entitled the same rights as any other legal party/
You could equate that paragraph to any ethnic /race/ class/ religion/ group in all aspects of public life.
We will all have a biased view on something or other... do we allow it to interfere in work/ life.... if you do them that is the time to deal with it.... but you cant penalize some one when they have not committed a crime.
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Location: Shropshire, UK
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,636
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21-11-2008, 01:11 PM
I would hate to live in the UK if they ever got into power. History teaches us lessons and its up to us to heed them. Lets not forget Hitler was VOTED in by the german people and started of with some very similar ideas. The germans were not to know what an evil hidden agenda his party had . . . We have the gift of hindsight so lets use it!
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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21-11-2008, 02:56 PM
This country is still subject to treason laws so we dont actually have free speech
The argument that the BNP are legal to me just says that they should be made illegal
Do we not have laws against enciting racial hatred?
Democracy does not include the right to perform genocide
I was born a White Scottish person by luck, nothing else
I did nothing to earn the title and I am no better or worse and I have no more or less right to live here than any other human being
I had no idea there were such racists on this forum, I am really sorry about that
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Location: Runcorn Cheshire UK
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,480
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21-11-2008, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by elaineb
How can anyone condone the BNP? As for the fact that they are a legitimate political party...well they should not be. I thought members of a political party had to have no criminal record
And that they support a democratic society! The British National Party claims to favour a democracy. Indeed they see themselves as its only advocates in a system where it is in tatters. Another lie. Over the years a number of BNP leaders have given us an insight into their idea of democracy.
John Tyndall, who founded the BNP, once said, “with the numbers of murderous asocials and perverts on the increase, as a result of our sick society, there will be an unanswerable case when the day for the great clean up comes, to implement the final solution against these sub-human elements by means of the gas chambers” (Spearhead 1965).
In 1976, Tyndall told the East London Advertiser, “When we get to power our opponents will be swept away like flies”.
Current leader Nick Griffin told Wales on Sunday in 1997, “The politicians, those in charge of the mass media, police chiefs and others responsible for creating this multi-racial hell hole must face trial and pay the ultimate penalty”.
Griffin’s contempt for the political process was evident when he told supporters in 1996 that the BNP needed to be seen as “a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan, ‘Defend Rights for Whites’, with well directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate”.
He went on to add, “It is more important to control the streets of a city than its council chamber. If that is the sort of ‘unreasonable’ attitude that journalists and opponents try to use against us at election times, it shouldn’t bother us”.
The BNP’s scorn for democracy is clear through its disregard for election rules.
In May 2002 one of its candidates in Sunderland stood for election despite having a recent conviction for fraud which disbarred him from standing
In May 2001, six BNP council candidates in Burnley were excluded after it was discovered that several of the people who were supposed to have signed the nomination papers denied doing so.
Deception also played a role in a council by-election in Three Rivers, Hertfordshire in November 2000. Several people who signed the form nominating BNP member Ian Edwards later complained that they were unaware of what they were signing. This included an 80-year-old Labour Party member.
In 2000, BNP member John Haycock was elected unopposed to a parish council in Bromyard. He was sacked from the council nine months later for non-attendance. More contempt for democracy.
Colin Smith, a key member of the BNP gave an address in Beckton, despite actually living in Bexleyheath. In May 1998, Smith stood in two local council elections simultaneously, using separate addresses to meet the residence requirement in each case.
During the passage through Parliament of the Representation of the People act 2000, Home Secretary Jack Straw specifically noted the BNP abuse in his speech introducing the Bill.
In the House of Commons 50 MPs signed an Early Day Motion condemning the BNP’s actions. It read, “This house deplores the unlawful action of the racist and fascist British National Party in once again breaching the Representation of the People Act”.
One candidate, Paul Henderson, stood under a false name. In Scotland, where the BNP fielded eight candidates, seven were not living at the addresses given on their nomination forms.
In the June 1999 elections, the BNP lied and cheated its way to a five-minute party political broadcast and the free delivery of 15 million leaflets by the Royal Mail. As many as 15 BNP candidates, out of a total of 79, gave false addressed on their nomination forms.
The BNP use dirty tricks. In November 2002 they secured their fourth councillor when Robin Evans won Mill Hill ward in Blackburn. Their campaign was based on deception and lies. In one leaflet a picture of Finsbury Park mosque was printed, with a caption stating that Muslims there celebrated the September 11th attacks. It neglected to tell voters that this mosque was in London.
Another ludicrous claim – that Asians were likely to become the majority in Blackburn within 10 years – was aimed at stoking up fear based on misinformation. In fact the non-white population stands at one-fifth in the town.
Forgery was even attempted when the BNP produced a leaflet purporting to come from the Liberal Democrats. Under the title “Caring for Ethnic Minorities” the leaflet urged people to vote Lib Dem if they wanted more money spent on Asians and asylum seekers. The leaflet is now under police investigation. A similar dirty tricks campaign was used in the Mixenden by-election in Halifax.
Even when the BNP do manage to take a seat on the council, their disrespect for the political process is obvious. In Halifax and Burnley, BNP councillors failed to attend the crucial budget meeting that sets council tax and spending for the coming year. This was in spite of promising voters that they would fight for tax cuts. In Burnley, all three councillors were absent from the most important meeting of the year.
These facts prove the BNP’s total disregard for democracy. Democracy would, after all, be swept away if the BNP ever gained power.
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
BTW we dont live in a country that has the right to free speech, that is America
This country is still subject to treason laws so we dont actually have free speech
The argument that the BNP are legal to me just says that they should be made illegal
Do we not have laws against enciting racial hatred?
Democracy does not include the right to perform genocide
I was born a White Scottish person by luck, nothing else
I did nothing to earn the title and I am no better or worse and I have no more or less right to live here than any other human being
I had no idea there were such racists on this forum, I am really sorry about that
Originally Posted by Jackbox
it is not about being convinced in any way... it is about the fact you cant have one rule for one, and not another.
Other legal political parties in the UK dont have such restrictions in place... so to single one out is abusing our rights to democracy.
If the BMP is constantly breaking laws and not abiding by the law of the land, then they should be outlawed...but they are not they are legit...and that is all it boils down to.
They have the same rights as any other.... till the day comes when they dont... you cant penalise member/supporters for their legal right to vote or work
"Then the law is an ass Sir!!" to quote Dickens...If that is a legal democratic party then it says a lot for the laws of this country doesn't it?
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Location: Manchester
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 8,479
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21-11-2008, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
BTW we dont live in a country that has the right to free speech, that is America
This country is still subject to treason laws so we dont actually have free speech
The argument that the BNP are legal to me just says that they should be made illegal
Do we not have laws against enciting racial hatred?
Democracy does not include the right to perform genocide
I was born a White Scottish person by luck, nothing else
I did nothing to earn the title and I am no better or worse and I have no more or less right to live here than any other human being
I had no idea there were such racists on this forum, I am really sorry about that
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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21-11-2008, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by catrinsparkles
Whether you see it as a legitimate party or not being part of a party that is inherently racists does not bode well for being in jobs where you should genuinly like and respect all "types" people you deal with taking them as individuals.
It is not whether I or anyone see it as a legit party , IT IS ONE!! and sadly I suspect theY are gaining more and more support through frustration .....you do not have to support a parties full referendum... to be a supporter of said party...
Most people when voting for a party/local election will vote for a candidate that has or proposes something they agree with or something said councillor/ MP has promised he will fight for.....for instance... tax, if that is what is your bug bare and someone was going to cut.. someone who was going to campaign for youth centres.... the same principal will go for some who vote BMP.... they will agree with a particular agenda.... and that is why they are gaining support... and unless the more mainstream parties up their anti on hot topics , they will contune to gain more votes...and that is the danger we are seeing.
Originally Posted by catrinsparkles
They may be legal and it might be a generalisation but yes, in general that is what they are saying. Why would people want to be in a party with this reputation!!
Maybe through desperation, I dont know, but the fact remains they are gaining more and more mainstream average voters...
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
BTW we dont live in a country that has the right to free speech, that is America
This country is still subject to treason laws so we dont actually have free speech
The argument that the BNP are legal to me just says that they should be made illegal
Do we not have laws against enciting racial hatred?
Democracy does not include the right to perform genocide
I was born a White Scottish person by luck, nothing else
I did nothing to earn the title and I am no better or worse and I have no more or less right to live here than any other human being
The anti terrorist act along with treason is for our protection and against the law and are in place to protect the country and those who love it it.
And as far as I am aware we do have laws against racial hatred.
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
I had no idea there were such racists on this forum, I am really sorry about that
Have I misSed something, where has anyone been racisit or aired racist views.
Originally Posted by elaineb
"Then the law is an ass Sir!!" to quote Dickens...If that is a legal democratic party then it says a lot for the laws of this country doesn't it?
Then we have the privilagde to stand up and protest to view our concerns .
Originally Posted by Stormey
That is true, but when you have preachers of hate and vile from other faiths having been allowed to hold public rallys and having a police gaurd, imo they should have been banned for holding these rallys. It is imo you either allow all or ban all.
That is my whole point.... you cant allow one and not the other... if the BNP is outwardly racist,and preaching genocide then it is up to the government to outlaw it... till then, we cant say they are not allowed the same rights as all other citizens of this country...we may not agree, .but to infringe on someones right to work in any job they want , because they belong to one party over an other is abhorrent to me as some of the policies of the BMP....
It has to work both ways.. or we no longer are a democratic country...
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Location: UK
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21-11-2008, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Stormey
That is true, but when you have preachers of hate and vile from other faiths having been allowed to hold public rallys and having a police gaurd, imo they should have been banned for holding these rallys. It is imo you either allow all or ban all.
If we dont treat EVERYONE the same then we are being racsist
That also counts all the jibes at English, Scottish and anywhere else - I suffered as a wee kid with a Scottish accent living in Newcastle and I again suffered as with an English accent when I moved back to Scotland
Also the totally vile sectarian football supporters
All should be cracked down uppon
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Location: Manchester
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 8,479
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21-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
Yes totaly agree, zero tolerance on all racsist behaviour
If we dont treat EVERYONE the same then we are being racsist
That also counts all the jibes at English, Scottish and anywhere else - I suffered as a wee kid with a Scottish accent living in Newcastle and I again suffered as with an English accent when I moved back to Scotland
Also the totally vile sectarian football supporters
All should be cracked down uppon
Luckily most the scots, irish, welsh I have met take jokes in good humor and give as good as they get.
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