you are very welcome :smt001

I can see *why* your average american housewife would fall for his charm and methods, although to me he just looks sleazy I can also understand why people with perhaps only pet dog experience (and I don't mean that in any bad way at all, just some people have a dog, and it happens to be well behaved with little training at all) will find his programmes and methods interesting and good, as he appears to get good results. The danger is when good results get mixed up with instant or short lasting, as these is what his method of training will usually bring.
Good, long lasting results and a happy, cooperative, confident dog is made by positive training. This may take longer at first, but the pay back is ten fold, as it will be more like a positive learnt behaviour in your dog, which is likely to stay with them for life and help build future positive learning experiences, as opposed to a reaction to pain or physical force, which will break the dog-handler bond, and make the dog more likely to react in an agressive/non cooperative manner next time it is faced with a challenge in life.

The problem with CM is that the dogs seem so bad (e.g. a lot of the dogs don't ever get walked/played with/socialised) that whatever he does he is bound to get a positive response from the dog.

I think like most TV dog-training programmes, you have to take it all with a pinch of salt, as actually training your dog to behave in a "good" way; day in, day out, takes a lot longer than the programmes show.

Instant results concern me greatly... I'd much rather put a lot of time and effort in and get long lasting results however long it takes. I never once had to use any form of physical force on Eddy whilst resocialising him and in 10 months he was a different dog - and still is.

Can I just add - about the show collars - Takara has a fine half check which is too big to tighten on her neck, the only times I ever hold it up behind her ears is either to get a better expression (it's her cue to put her ears forward) OR if she's crabbing while I'm moving her. By holding the lead upwards, it helps her to go in a straight line. Never to control her from pulling.

How I teach my dogs to heel and actually even casual walking without pulling is a simple about turn. In training- when the one starts to pull, I do a abrupt about turn, and walk until I get another pull. I have 4 Borzois- and usually only walk two at a time, but walking all 4 is just as easy as they learn very quick- if I pull I lost where I was going. They learn to focus more on you, and not to pull.
With 4 giant dogs- the males 100 pounds or a little over, and the two females at 90 pounds about- no way could I at 120 pounds stop a pull. So training works.
As far as heel- here is a method I use. First use the above method to stop the forward pull. Then once understanding this, if the dog pulls moves too far out to the right- ie almost crossing me- I turn left like a bump,.. If they go too far to the left- I turn right.. " Heel " is this- " walk on" is the above- its a walk but no pulling- just stay with me without pulling.

Thank you Borzoimom but we have come to an arrangement that works for us after trying many methods! It wasn't that I was looking to use one of these - it was for future reference in case anyone asked me

Hey guys -

I am learning to be a trainer now also and I thought I would add one point about CM.

I've learned to train 99.9% positive reinforcement and negative punishment methods (dont care much for positive punishment and negative reinforcement, but one day 10 years out there may be that one dog...never know...) The dogs I have worked with are mostly just not obedient - their owners dont exercice them enough...some have some fear issues...others have seperation anxiety...but the overwhelming majority are obedience problems as opposed to behavioral problems.

CM's methods are a little barbaric...but at the same time there are not alot of trainers who would be willing to work with those dogs because most trainers are obedience instructors with only a basic idea of behavioral modification. Most of those dogs are really far gone, most of them have hard personalities, and for alot of them what he does works enough to make the owners comfortable with their dogs again.

Just try to keep in mind when knocking his methods that different dogs need different methods. His methods wouldnt work for my mutt because Jay respons really well to positive reinforcement and negative punishment and Jay is very sensitive to our moods and body language. He has a softer temperment and positive punishment would do more harm then good for him. However...the big dog down the street who snarls and screeches every time we pass his fence may react better to that kind of training...you dont know until you get there....and honestly it is best to know all methods of training because there may come a day when you have that dog.

As far as the collar goes...eh...dont much care for it...but keep in mind a Halti can be dangerous too on a Greyhound who goes from 0 to 60...it would snap their neck around right good…harnesses promote pulling from a lot of dogs – different equipment definetley needs to be used or not used with different breeds….I imagine this collar isnt any different.

I know a lot of you don’t agree with his methods…I wouldn’t for 99% of the dogs I know either – but really, he isnt a bad guy either. He is ery active in the rescue community and has saved dogs that would otherwise be PTS; he works in charities and he has raised peoples awareness of dogs (I wouldn’t have known not to pet Jay when he was freaking out or that he needed as much exercise as I now know he does…at the time I had him the knowledge I had of dogs was nilch.) He helped out with the White Shep. Community once…came in and worked with one of our rescue organizations…I wasn’t around at the time but I still hear from the people in my club how amazing it was to work with him.

Just my two cents

~Cate

I watch Cesar a lot and whilst I wouldn't use the collar I have been impressed with the results he gets and also the way his own pack interacts. They all seem happy well-balanced dogs. Not many people who could run a pack of 47 with pit bulls, etc. I do think he understands the mind of the dog and whilst some things look a bit unkind to us I do think he gets into the dogs head and way of thinking.

A lot of his dogs if not all are now back in rescue

Re the pitbulls, I know a behaviourist/trainer in Philadelphia who has rehabbed them and lived with them using methods very different to his, ie not punishment based. It can be done

Anyway that's off topic but just wanted to say...

Wys
x

I think, like any tool, you should check it out for yourself, before praising it, or berating it.

I personally grow increasingly frustrated at what I see as knee-jerk reactions to almost any tool these days, based on anecdotes like "I knew a man who knew someone who knew a dog who...". They may well be true, but I bet there are also hundreds of others who know someone who didn't experience the same thing.

I experience the exact same thing in some places and by some people with my GSD's choke collar. Not one of them, of course, has seen the other half a dozen collars and harnesses we've gone through trying to find one that she couldn't slip when she was trying to attack another dog. But of course, it seems, everyone has that story of how they know someone who knows someone else who has a dog that choked to death. Oddly, my vet doesn't, Rob Alleyene doesn't, and nor do I. The former two, I would have expected to be able to cite at least one real case.

Please, please, please, do stick to using your own judgement. Remember too, that Cesar doesn't come with the collar and so whatever views people have of him and his methods are completely academic. Any collar can be a torture device if the motive is there within the handler. I strongly suspect that wouldn't be your motive.

im not a big authority on cm but I have seen a bit of what he does, I must admit, he is good with the dominant breeds, I myself had been told a few years ago that it would be a blood bath if I bought a rotty who was 18 months old, had been used a few times at stud, then brought him home to live with my males, GSD, Bull mastiff, but I got him and needless to say not a problem, I still have three stud dogs running together without any problems as such, I do feel though many folk think you can keep all dogs in the same manner, not true, some breeds just need that little bit more dominant owners, this must be combined with a good ability to watch your dogs interact and see problems coming before the blow up., I have been lucky to date, never had a serious problem hope it continues, but if it did not I would have to re think my abitlity to own large dominant breeds at all. some breeds just cant be treated,.in the same manner as others,