What is it about these devices that instantly make people forget about body language etc.
For a dog to yelp - something hurts.

End of.

I cannot believe you did this.

does the dog come back now without the collar on

Gnasher- I have been floating around Ute forums for years, and if you honestly believe there is any wolf in Utes or Northern Inuits, then I seriously give up.

I wouldn't use an e-collar on any dog and it wasn't my Westie one was used on either - it was my Border Collie x Basenji (two often high demanding dogs rolled in to one).

She'd had 5 years of abuse and neglect and it was bloody hard work to calm her down and her recall was shocking - she didn't have one! She does now, but it is not 100%, but that's understandable given her breeding - Basenjis aren't known for their fabulous recall!

That has got to be the worst defence ever - the most Hateful thing CM ever did to that poor dog.

in 14 years of his life - to use him as a demo - shocking him

Disgraceful.

Then you had already made a huge amount of progress with Ben. I don't understand, then, why you would want to try to rush things now and risk losing so much with your choice. I hope you will reconsider.

So - you spent 6 months teaching him to trust you around his collar - only to put a device on him and deliver a static shock that makes him yelp.

Great - gotta love the trust that dogs place in people.

Ignoring all the crap about "you haven't got wolf crosses", these dogs, whatever you want to call them, are very different. They are smart, they think laterally, you say "jump" and they will say "how high, but btw, what's in it for me, and I don't mean a bloody biscuit!!".

If this collar had not worked IMMEDIATELY, I would not have allowed OH to continue - although what he does when I'm not there, I have no control over of course. All I know is the dog I saw in Harlestone Firs on Sunday was a vision - it was as if he had become his father reincarnated. All the joy, the exuberance, the Ben-ness was there bursting with delight in the pouring rain and mud! The first time I whistled him and called Come, he came belting back to me and skidded to a sit right in front of me and almost knocked me off my feet! He roamed for miles that day, in and out of the trees, in and out of muddy puddles, we never had to use the collar, not once. That's how it should be. I could not have stood seeing him being zapped, even though I know it is only a static shock, NOT electrical current. I am a girl, I don't understand the difference, to me if it hurts, then it hurts and I don't care what it's called. Do you think I would want to have my husband HURT my beloved Ben if I didn't think it was necessary.

No, I am not prepared to say on a public forum what we have gone through, but if anybody is interested I will tell them in a PM on the understanding that it is done on trust.

oh dear you do not have a WOLFCROSS!!

You said it - floating around Ute forums. I take it you knew Eddie Harrison then?