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Ramble
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09-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
The dog had this condition before, he didnt attack. He gave no warning, a growl, raising his lip etc.. would of been a warning, he attacked WITHOUT warning, its not acceptable.
He will have given a warning though Dawn..it's just perhaps the OP didn't spot it.
GSD-Sue
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09-01-2010, 03:14 PM
Haven't read all through the thread,so don't know all that has been suggested, but I would get him checked out at a vets asap, before you do anything else. I'd also get him checked for Lymes disease as we had a dog through the rescue who had attacked his owner, completely out of character & this was linked to the Lymes disease. s long as he is checked for this & treated at the first sign of it recurring he has been his usual loving self. Pain & illness can cause many animals to act out of character.
Jackie
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09-01-2010, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
thanks, I think im going to get an appointment at a different vet to the normal one, coz I wasn’t happy with them when I took him there last week so want a second opinion from a different vet.

Why were you not happy with the treatment you recieved

Thanks, yeah he has lost the fur around his eyes, its all red and he has a few wee sores around his eyes and mouth and his ears look very painful too. the vet thinks it is a mite but im not sure… I hadn’t thought about him maybe not being able to hear as well

But he must be able to hear , if he listened to you when you told him to get off your bed.


that’s a good point. He has been in pain though, he randomly whines and tries to itch it a lot. Plus, around his eyes keeps bleeding.

Poor boy, he must be very uncomfortable with this condition, has he only just become uncomfortable with his eyes and ears.... or has it been going on for a few days, since your last vet visit, did the vet give you stronghold, I did not think it worked on "mange" and can I ask why you are applying every two wks, does the dosage not say it last for up to a month?, what ear medication has he been given, if these are not working you need to get something stronger from your vet

We usually do close the bedroom door, but they sometimes forget and when the kids are here (my niece and nephew are around a lot) its difficult coz they always open it.

Maybe a baby gate at the bottom of the stairs will help you in this situation

Im trying to be normal with him, my dad let him out his crate this morning while I was still asleep and I got woken by jake pawing at me. then when I opened my eyes, he came and snuggled up next to me, and gave me a few wee licks.



Thanks emma, its so so not like my boy… he never does anything like this. I think it must be coz of his eyes and ears coz its just so out of character and although he can be a first class pest on walks, his behaviour in the house is usually so much better than this. He really is so well behaved… yeah he gets into things he shouldn’t, but he does usually listen when told what to do, whether it be ‘drop’, ‘leave, ‘come’ etc.



thanks, I think I will have to stop him going on my bed, he just usually listens when told to get down so has never been a problem before.



Thanks, maybe that’s what it is with him, his ears could be making him feel a bit funny and disorientated… I just cant think what else it could be, coz although he pushes the boundaries on walks he doesn’t in the house, and earlier on that night he went on the couch twice, and as soon as I said down, he got off them.

If his ears were giving his problems with balance you would see it at all times, not just when he is misbehaving , he woudl be shaking his head, holding it to one side, and would be showing discomfort on walks too.

Thanks, I don’t think he is pushing the boundaries either, he does on walks but his behaviour in the house is great and he usually listens so well in the house. I think it must be his eyes and ears, he must be in pain and getting fed up with it now.

I think you need to understand , he is pushing the boundaries, the infection may be escalating the problem, but it is not the cause of the problem, I am sure Jake is getting a little stressed with his condition now, as it has been going on for a while now,

thanks, yeah you can lose trust. I am trying to be normal with him but I feel so wary and cautious. Jake has never ever done this, even when food or bones have been taken off him… he doesn’t growl (he did once to my niece but never to anyone else and we worked on it and now he doesn’t with her either) or tense up or anything… so it really isn’t like him at all…
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
Didnt you hit/smack him when he wouldnt get down/move before he bit you? That was the punishment i was refering too.

I think thats the key to his behaviour, unless lozzi is using this form of punishment on a daily basis , then it may be the trigger to him fearing her ,

She told him to get off the bed, as we were not there , we dont know how she did this, he refuses, she smacks him or taps him, he get off the bed, and freezes on the floor, she then tries to pick him up.........all of this will have made him uneasy, and again unless Jake is used to being picked up by lozzi , he will not be happy to suddenly being picked up , add that to the negativity he has already received, and you get the outcome , that has arisen.


Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I think you misread her opening post Tassle, she actually said:


He did move when she tapped him, he got down, so IMO there was no reason for the dog to launch an attack on her. Perhaps a more experienced owner could of seen something else in his behaviour, but Lozzie did nothing that Jake was not used to, so I cant see how she was at fault from her description. OK, you or me may not of picked the dog up, but again, he WAS used to her doing this, so IMO the attack was unprovoked, a rumble or growl would of been the warning, not an attack.

I think perhaps she needs to go back to square one, sort out his eye/ear problems and take it a day at a time.

I wonder , if that was the problem , Lozzi was not experienced enough to read Jake's, body language, and in challenging him, he has reacted...


I also agree with getitng his ears and eyes sorted out, as a priority.
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09-01-2010, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
I think thats the key to his behaviour, unless lozzi is using this form of punishment on a daily basis , then it may be the trigger to him fearing her ,

She told him to get off the bed, as we were not there , we dont know how she did this, he refuses, she smacks him or taps him, he get off the bed, and freezes on the floor, she then tries to pick him up.........all of this will have made him uneasy, and again unless Jake is used to being picked up by lozzi , he will not be happy to suddenly being picked up , add that to the negativity he has already received, and you get the outcome , that has arisen.

I wonder , if that was the problem , Lozzi was not experienced enough to read Jake's, body language, and in challenging him, he has reacted...

I also agree with getitng his ears and eyes sorted out, as a priority.
She does mention that he is used to this I believe.
Jackie
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09-01-2010, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
She does mention that he is used to this I believe.
After she has smacked him or chastised him... or in a friendly play kind of way?

I wonder if it would make a difference?
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09-01-2010, 04:32 PM
Lauren, please don't be too upset with Jake... I wasn't going to post but I wanted to let you know, that I know exactly what you are going through... my big soft dope Jamie has bitten me and scared the life out of me too... He has never drawn blood, but it shook me to the core and I spent sleepless nights aching with grief over it... he was ill with tummy problems when it happened and he just acted out his frustrations... it was a blip, which I am sure this is too... We went back to basics and tried to avoid the situation again.
(((HUGS))) hun I feel for you, but he does love you as you love him xxx
maxine
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09-01-2010, 05:17 PM
The OP has said Jake is used to being "tapped" and picked up. That doesn't mean he likes it and perhaps with a slightly shortened fuse he's not prepared to put up with it. I think it's really important after this that Jake's training is strictly reward based and he should not be "tapped" at all for getting it wrong.

I am also concerned that in stopping Jake from growling at her neice the OP has now switched his warning system off.

We all learn as we go along and sometimes we make mistakes. We have all been there. The brilliant thing about this site is you can learn much faster and so make fewer mistakes. Hang on in there LB & Jake you will be just fine!!
Lou
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09-01-2010, 05:32 PM
Lauren, frontline is a monthly treatment same as Advocate.

Also Frontline will not kill Mange/Mites........You need Advocate I'm not sure why you've been given Frontline to put on him fortnightly, also to confirm Mange Jake will need a scrape.

I also agree with what everyone's saying.....Try and get Jake into a training class.

Good Luck at the vets x
Helena54
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09-01-2010, 05:40 PM
I've now read the whole of this thread (ish!), and I agree, Jake definitely needs veterinary treatment, especially if he's bleeding around the eyes, has painful ears, etc. I also agree about that "tapping", he's cottoned on to that, he expected worse to come, along with the pain he's in, and then you have the lack of a warning, which I also agree with, the episode with your niece when he got told off for it, coz no dog I have ever met bites without giving a warning sign first, usually in the form of a growl - even Georgie has done that to me when his ears were painful, but thankfully, I read the sign!

I totally agree about the outside training, it must be reward based, he must never be reprimanded for not doing something right or for not doing it at all, ignoring him will do far more good than any reprimand.

After all that's sorted LOzzieb, you should be on the way to gaining a good relationship back. I know in your heart, the way you feel now, you'll probably want to be quite bossy with him, because you're guess is, that way, he'll know who's boss blah,blah,blah, but that won't work, you have to do the opposite of that, not with slobbering all over him with affection, but with genuinely felt, strict (is that the right word here?!) commands, which will have to be rewarded each and everytime, don't overdo the affection, he knows how much you adore him, you need to be firm with him now, not nasty, not tapping or pushing him about or even picking him up (why do you do that????) just be firmer with him and always reward him when he's doing what you've asked, but most of all be consistent with it over and over again, and you should get there.

Don't be afraid of him, he'll pick up on that, just be nice but "firm" and you'll win him over, coz he didn't mean to do it, either he was in pain, or he warned and you missed it, it could be any number of reasons, but whatever it was, the end result was his only way of telling you imo. I honestly don't think he's the snappy type of dog from what you've said before, but from my own experience, dogs respect you far more by being firm with them, than any amount of slobbering over them you can do, there are special times for that, they appreciate it more when they get it and look forward to those special times together I hope that makes sense, but I kind of get the feeling, you're a bit over affectionate with him and maybe he is trying to push the boundaries a tad? I honestly can't say. Hope this helps and I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to give you some of my own experience with my breed of dog, which had any of them done what Jake has done to you, I'd be in a lot worse state than you are now and probably taking them off to the vet to be pts for fear of them biting a stranger, but thankfully, I've always managed to read the signs, and hopefully you will too should you ever see something like this again. Good luck.
nickmcmechan
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09-01-2010, 06:14 PM
some simple bits of advice seem to have cam eout of all this

  1. get the dog's health sorted
  2. be consistent in application of rules
  3. get along to training classes, Airdrie isn't far from Motherwell at all
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