"apha is a more economical word than boss or leader, which isnt actually the case."

Excuse me, but when I was at school 3 words were more than one ! The words "boss or leader" are a bit more of a mouthful than the one word "alpha".

Lottie : of course I am not trying to wind you up ! I was merely trying to help. Obviously my thoughts are not welcome, so I'll shut up. I was trying to help, but fair do's, you're not interested, your perogative. Personally, I always keep an open mind and will always listen to what other people say, even if I don't take their advice, but no worries, you're entitled to your thoughts.

I did like what you said about Tai's sep anxiety, but it really is not a problem for us. i just told you about that to show to you that even Tai, as well balanced as he is, is frightened of something! We had to live with this with Hal for 10 years, and now Tai. It is the down side with dogs like Malamutes and Huskies, they are very pack orientated and unless you have more than one, you cannot leave them Home Alone. So it is not something that we can "train him out of", it is the price you pay for having this type of dog, and to us it is a price well worth paying.

But I read what you said, and I liked it. It makes sense, but like you, I know my dog better than anyone else and we will never be able to leave Tai Home Alone, full stop. Neither would we want to, he comes everywhere with us and why shouldn't he, he is an important member of our family.

Thats exactly what I've been saying.
So why do you need to use an term originated from a hundred year old theory (which is open to some scrutiny), when you arent using it to do with that theory, but are just using it as an exchange word, when all you need to is use a word that already exists in your own language ('number one, 'leader' or 'boss')?.

(especially if we consider that we dont even know if 'alpha' is the even the greek word for leader or boss?, but i would be interested to know the answer to that)

You wouldn't use ancient roman words for 'trainer', or cryllic for 'dog owner', for examples???


thats what i was saying

But you wouldnt go round using 2 or 3 words for the same sentence.
In conversation, you wouldnt say "I am my dog's top dog, leader, and boss"

You would just use one phrase or the other at different times, with no worry about being understood, as everyone knows they impart the same meaning.
And the word 'boss' is the most economical in syllable and pronunciation.
So why use a symbolic ancient foreign phrase when it serves no meaningful purpose?
Unless, of course, it does have a meaning for you?
Such as you use it for its behaviour theory associations or connotations?
Which you explained was your secondary reason, so its completely sensible to use the phrase 'alpha', if you follow that particular behaviour theory.

What does it matter what word we use??

personally I use..Heid Bummer but I doubt most would understand it!

Do we not use a lot of words that originated in other languages..(isn't etc French?)

I would say I am top dog in this house..But I don't mean it literally!! in the sense that I think I am the dog..(I also say it to my kids)

Whether the word Alpha originated from a theory or not, the word is used in many terms..

Blimey, not heard the words Heid Bummer for years and years, my gran used to say "look out hen Heid Bummer is back"
when my Papa walked in the door
that brought back happy memories of me dearly missed granparents

I like to see all animals as equals on this earth, we all have the same right to be here and live with one another, I hate it when a LOT of people think humans are some higher being, we are not, we are all in this thing called life together, humans, dogs, cats, ladybirds.

However, when I have domestic animals/pets living with me I expect them to respect me (as such, an animal of course has a different view than what we would term 'respect') as I respect them - I don't hurt them, they don't hurt me, I am good to them, they are good to me e.t.c. (not that they understand it exactly this way but still, you know what I am getting at) and behave in a reasonable manner as to their species, i.e. being under control and well behaved, good manners and not being a menace to society, exactly as I would expect my children to behave, my father to behave, my grandmother to behave. Then as to their species, meaning, some things are passable, snapping when hurt or frightened, reacting in certain ways due to certain events, pinching the leg of lamb because they have been starved for 24 hours due to really bad tummy upset, you know, things dogs do that are a bit naughty but acceptable now and then.

I don't know what this makes me? Technically I do OWN them, am 100% responsible for them and their actions, I HAVE to keep them in check. I bring them up and train them and make sure they have everything they need and behave in public (and at home!) and they need to be able to do what I ask of them, when I ask it, but they need to be able to do this not because they are my slaves or I am a dictator to them, but for their own happiness.

I think it`s a bit disingenuous to use the word `Alpha` in your own context when the OP was specifically referring to the `Alpha Male` label used by a well-known behaviour theory.
If your interpretation of Alpha Male is not that of the OP I think it would be best to say so before discussing pros and cons, so we know we`re all singing from the same hymn-sheet.

Brilliant post! Ditto!
Becky

Quote from Krusewalker "But you wouldnt go round using 2 or 3 words for the same sentence.
In conversation, you wouldnt say "I am my dog's top dog, leader, and boss" "

EXACTLY ! This is the point I am making ! What a mouthful ! Which is why I like the word "alpha", it is nice and neat and conveys to the listener exactly what I consider myself to be - Top Bitch !

Without wishing to be rude, I don't care a fig for the origins of the word, I like it and will continue to use it, although because it seems to provoke such antagonism on Dogsey, I think it may be better to refer to myself as "Boss" !

EXCELLENT post Ramble, very well said !

I don't agree with everything you say, but I too dislike the arrogance of our species that we think we have power over every living thing on the planet - and the right to such power. Your dogs are very lucky to have you as their owner !