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gordon mac
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13-01-2016, 03:05 AM

Europe - is it time to pull up the drawbridge?

Given that the day of destiny (when we vote whether to stay part of the European Community) will soon be upon us. I was wondering what people's thoughts are on the matter:
Would we be better off on our own?
Should we hugely curtail the influx of migrants to our shores?
If we stay "IN" should we cut benefits to new-comers?
There are so many questions and permutations, many people with whom I speak seem rather confused by the whole subject and hardly surprising as both sides of the argument offer very jaundiced views.
So good Dogsey members, what are your views/concerns and should we be IN or OUT?
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Dorrit
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13-01-2016, 06:19 AM
I just wish they would hurry up and have the vote..
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tumbleweed
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13-01-2016, 09:25 AM
WE always did ok before we joined and can easily do the same if we pull out.
The EEC want us to stay in as we are one of the biggest contributors to the money pot. America does not want us to leave as they use us as a back door to the EEC.

I remember very very well the original should we join or not referendum and boy how much was that rigged?

it was about 60/40 yes/no vote , however the people that didn't vote were considered to be for joining by the government at the time. So we went in against the wishes or the majority of the population . And what a mess it landed us in, billions of our hard earned money just going down a bottomless well.

Get out this time and lets hope everyone votes not ignoring it . Trading with Europe is not so critical now as new markets are opening up such as brazil and china at last to name but two apart for the commonwealth countries etc.
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tawneywolf
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13-01-2016, 09:54 AM
I don't think we should stay in, I don't think we should ever have joined, and I also don't think we should have built the Channel Tunnel. We are an island and have always benefitted from that, now the only people that benefit are the illegal immigrants, the workless and the people that travel over here to pickpocket and steal. Get us out, and make sure we stay out. The rest of the world is happy to trade with us, lots of countries aren't in the EU and they are doing very well thank you. The debacle of the unmanned borders and terrorism that has walked through the open doors is a good reason to say Bye Bye
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Chris
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13-01-2016, 01:30 PM
I wish I knew the full ins and outs, but, like everyone else I am left guessing at most of it and hearing horror stories on both sides of the argument.

However, based on what I've seen, I'm voting to take us out. A trading community is fine, but we have gone way beyond that to, I believe, our detriment.
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Losos
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13-01-2016, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
The debacle of the unmanned borders and terrorism that has walked through the open doors is a good reason to say Bye Bye
This is one thread which will run and run

I'm not going public on this, not yet anyway

But you have highlighted one very important point which it still amazes me that the politicins ignored.

People talk about the USA but always forget that a system of independant states united together ONLY worked because they have the FBI - this is an organisation which can and does operate throughout the USA and it can and does overide all the state police and state laws where Washington has granted them the powers to do so.

There is NOTHING in Europe equivalent to the FBI and until there is the absolute farce of people rowing a boat across a bit of water and landing illegally in an EU country and thereafter being able to go anywhere without
controls is so mind blowingly stupid it's beyond belief.

There can be no half way house to a UNITED STATES OF EUROPE if people want a European Union which works just look across the pond and see how they did it.

And first create, fund, and train an EFBI (European Federal Burea of Investigation) with the powers to arrest criminals (That means people who have entered the country illegally)

If you want to see how that works just try entering the USA illegally, yes it is happening on the Mexican border but wherever they go in America the FBI can persue them. In Europe the Police in each state are completely powerless to cross borders and bring criminals to justice who ever they are and where ever they come from.

It's a joke.
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gordon mac
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14-01-2016, 04:38 PM
I too remember the first vote - when we got railroaded into it all. That said, though, it was just meant in those far off days of naivety to be a joining together for trade and commerce. Not the forming of a huge Federal State that will really just be Greater Germany, where we can't wipe our noses without the express and expensive permission of our Euro-lords & Masters.
Frau Merkel's lot had two goes at taking over Europe in the not too distant past and were rebuffed by the brave efforts of the people of our little island, this time they are achieving their goal without having to fire a shot.
The sooner we're out of it the better, as far as I am concerned.
As a sort of miserable Post Script - talk about reaping what you sow - just look at the trouble with immigrants assaulting ladies over the New Year Celebrations in Cologne, Hamburg and many other german cities. WELL They let 'em in!
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tawneywolf
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14-01-2016, 04:43 PM
Say what you like about David Cameron, but how sensible to only take families from the refugee camps, and not the ones who've come over in boats. I know the majority are genuine and there have been some dreadful dreadful tragedies and drownings, but with them have come members of Daesh who performed the shootings in Paris. Talk about wise with hindsight, maybe it had occurred to him, maybe it hadn't but I think there is far less chance of Daesh getting in via a refugee camp than by rubber dinghy, not saying it couldn't happen of course, because they get where water can't!!
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gordon mac
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14-01-2016, 05:37 PM
I don't, in truth, think Cameron is doing that bad of a job by the accepting of Refugees from Camps. This method will save many women and children and should weed out the shifty Daesh bunch that always seem to be mixed in with the large groups of young men posing as victims of political persecution etc.
I know it doesn't sound nice (after all I'm not after anybody's vote) but I'd blast any ship sneaking into our territorial waters, for whatever reason.
Nasty? Yes! However, once you'd sent a few off in the direction of Allah or whoever, the rest would soon get the hint and that particular avenue would swiftly dry up!
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tawneywolf
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14-01-2016, 05:42 PM
Australia doesn't exactly blast anyone out of the water, but anyone found trying to land is taken back to their country of origin. Result, not many people opt to try it.
I agree LG, I think he has picked the best possible thing to do, whether it started out that way or not, we'll never know, but he has done the safest thing and still helped people who have lost everything because of all the goings on in Syria.
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