Then the answer to that Patch, is if the dogs built right you wont need to touch its tail, nor support it, it will fall correct without intervention. A trend will occur while Dogs cannot for some reason hold their own tail up, or not enjoy showing and it drop low.

Im not sure Karen will remember Jim Burrell, I know him and his wife well, watched him judge a couple times, he'd knock your hand away if you tried to hold the dogs tail up.

when I get round to having my next litter,,,the ONE I hope will be super special, I will show my puppy from that as it stands so to speek, no handling of tails, that said I dont stack my lot anyway, FWIW I mac, I think your puppys tail looks super just as it lays, I would be tempted to leave it, it flows nicely with the back angulation, x

Not having to own a full tailed Dobe yet I'm fortunate not to have this quandry re tails and by the time I do own one it will all be sorted out, there are quite a few different looks with a full tail and as I said earlier they being the powers that be need to make a judgment on what is or isn't right after all they where the ones who decided along with other bodies to stop the docking of tails which has caused this debate in the first place

Mo and the Gang

I think breeders have concentrated on tail sets having not had to be concerned previously with tails in general. I have heard of Dobes being born with kinks in their tails too, not good, but of course if docked wouldnt make any difference, but now with them, the genetic predisposition will become apparent.

Ok, lets look at it from a different angle.
Why are all breeds not Shown without anyone touching their tails ?
Why is there as customary way to hold or support Bloodhound tails for instance ?
And Beagles ?
Westies ?
Many of the Terrier breeds ?
All the Setter breeds ?
etc etc etc

If it is a free stood breed beforehand, why should you start holding the tails all of a sudden? When I finally get my rott I won't be holding his tail, but if I ever took a weim into the ring again i'd hold it as it's how they are shown. No one is going to hide fault are they as you can't keep hold of it on the move.

Interesting to see the diversity of tails from the dobes featured on this thread. the second one Patch posted where it is curled over his back looks very thin and small too compared to most. I've noticed in both weims and rotts the sizes of stumps vary to what would have been a thick or thin tail and then you can only second guess the length.

This has been covered on another thread I advertise my dog so the GP have a choice of a health tested dog or one from round the corner. I look on it as a way to promote healthier breeding.
Yet you advocate certain breeder friends about their quality breeding. Also you say how bad the situation is but don't do anything about it in 'your breed'!
Yes they do and I wouldn't touch certain lines with a barge pole but my dogs have fantastic temperament. Check out the thread about breeding from aggressive dogs it happens in all breeds.
Yes I will be going to WELKS you see I have been watching the pups with tails because I go to the dobe shows not just sit at home speculating. How many times have you been since the undocked pups came out to be able to make your judgement?

So do you agree that you aren't an expert, you have simply been in contact with people who have dobes and can read the breed standard which as everyone knows is always open to personal interpretation?And are you saying that the majority of dobes are all built incorrectly?
Aactually Dawn what I did say was I haven't even bred my own litter yet,I waited for the right bitch to come along that is of fantastic conformation, type, head and temperament and have at least 2 years before a litter is even thought of. How many litters do I have to churn out willy nilly to become a 'breeder' in your opinion. And you know full well as I have posted before that I have turned down more work than have accepted for Khan, because I am very particular about what he goes to. You've been on my website check out the breeding page for my ethics and conditions. At least I am trying to do something for the breed that I love not just rip it to pieces.
No I don't know him but it goes back to what I was saying about my friends dog one judge wanted the tail up the other in the stakes class wanted it left alone.

Hi Random, yes there is a great diversity in tails they are nearly all different and held differently (by the dogs themselves I mean!) The Rottie pups I've seen have them all at different angles but like you say they are free stood and shown differently to weims,dobes and boxers. I think personally that the springers look 'right' with their tails been held out straight but would look just as good left alone because (and I could be totally wrong here as Springers aren't my breed) there seems much more uniformity on the tails with regards size and length.

I could never show Krystal with her tail straight out cos my arms aren't long enough I tried my friends Irish Setter at our club and couldn't reach.

Thanks Shona, I must say that is how I was practising with her (one less thing to worry about )until I went to Welsh Dobe. I think if I can teach her to put her tail up on command I can have the best of both worlds

It's all to do with the tail set IMO. If the breed standard calls for a high set tail on a customarily stacked breed then handlers will hold the tail up (or let the dog hold it up on it's own if they are lucky enough to have one that will!). A lot of terriers have high tail sets so they are held up (or the dog holds them up) when stood.

If the tail is medium set, a continuation of the spine, then tails will normally be left alone or held out straight behind (as is done in setters and spaniels). If the standard calls for the tail to be raised only slightly when moving then why would anyone want it held up (as in bang on top) when stood?

Beagles have tails set on high and carried up but not inclining forward - they are stacked or free stood with their tails up straight.

Bloodhounds also have high set tails but the standard calls for it to be carried scimitar fashion so they are stacked that way.

Debs

Bit hampered by not being able to see pics, is the brown girl called Mara?