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runningrabbit
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27-11-2011, 01:29 PM

Search square questions

As I got such a helpful response last time, I'm back…

Sorry if some of these questions are naive, but I'm just getting started.

With search squares, I'm following the method where you first plant the articles at the base of the poles, so the dog learns to check out each pole first. Once the dog knows that, you move the articles inwards.

I have a few questions though:

Q1 - I understand that all kinds of things can be WT articles. What would be suitable articles, for someone just starting out and doing their first search squares, someone who is preparing for the first stakes? Indoors, I am practising pick-ups on all kinds of items, tiny things and metal things, and that is going well, but I have been sticking to bigger, easier things in the field for now.

However the 15 yard Intro stake search square seems pretty small. And the articles I'm using outdoors at the moment are similar to those I'm using at the end of a track - so they are quite big. (Scraps of leather, small carpet sample squares etc.) So it is all pretty easy for my dog, who is finding the articles at the base of the posts really fast.

Should I make the articles smaller? I don't want to move them away from the posts until I'm sure that the dog has learnt to check out the posts first of all. Or perhaps it is good that the dog finds them so fast, to keep motivation high at this stage?

Q2 - When I am starting out this search square training, should I be paying any attention to wind direction and if so, what and why?

Q3 - Since I don't want the dog to be tracking my footsteps as the article-layer in the search square, what should I be doing with my feet when I am preparing a square? I have been shuffling about over the whole area, so the footprints don't lead anywhere or mean anything - I did this because the KC regs said the person should 'scuff the ground', is that right?

Thanks for any help offered.
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smokeybear
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27-11-2011, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by runningrabbit View Post
Q1 - I understand that all kinds of things can be WT articles. What would be suitable articles, for someone just starting out and doing their first search squares, someone who is preparing for the first stakes? Indoors, I am practising pick-ups on all kinds of items, tiny things and metal things, and that is going well, but I have been sticking to bigger, easier things in the field for now.

No point in doing search squares until and unless you have a fantastic retrieve by which I mean the dog is bonkers to retrieve. Attitude first.

Secondly have you taught your dog how to hold search square articles?

Should be in between the incisors so the risk of swallowing them or crunching them is minimised
.


However the 15 yard Intro stake search square seems pretty small. And the articles I'm using outdoors at the moment are similar to those I'm using at the end of a track - so they are quite big. (Scraps of leather, small carpet sample squares etc.) So it is all pretty easy for my dog, who is finding the articles at the base of the posts really fast.

Good, if you make it easy and simple you maintain attitude and motivation; one of the key mistakes made by beginners is to make things harder and harder so the dog gets demotivated.

Should I make the articles smaller? I don't want to move them away from the posts until I'm sure that the dog has learnt to check out the posts first of all. Or perhaps it is good that the dog finds them so fast, to keep motivation high at this stage?

It is not size you should focus on but material.

Ie are you using articles that do not hold scent well? Hard plastics, planed wood.

I put mixtures of difficulty in and sizes. I also always put more articles in than I want the dog to find to begin with.

Once I have conditioned the dog to the poles I never lay 15 yard squares they are always full size squares
.

Q2 - When I am starting out this search square training, should I be paying any attention to wind direction and if so, what and why?

IME it depends on the breed; my gundogs have always preferred to work with a cheek wind, my GSD does not care, but generally I would start with a head wind ie the wind blowing down the square towards you and the dog so it wafts the scent of the articles at the two further poles towards the dog and encourages it to go out.

Q3 - Since I don't want the dog to be tracking my footsteps as the article-layer in the search square, what should I be doing with my feet when I am preparing a square? I have been shuffling about over the whole area, so the footprints don't lead anywhere or mean anything - I did this because the KC regs said the person should 'scuff the ground', is that right?

Thanks for any help offered.

Think about it, in a competition the square steward has neither the time nor the energy to walk all over each square.

As articles have to be PLACED and not thrown, then they cannot be placed FURTHER than a person can reach when bending down, so where people have walked can give the dog a bit of a clue.

I never scuff the ground when I am square steward nor do I ask my stewards to do this when I judge.

HTH
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runningrabbit
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27-11-2011, 03:29 PM
Thanks for your help.

Anything I put on the floor is instantly picked up and given to me, so I can hardly stand up before it is given me. Even things which take some trying are ok. I would say the retrieve fanatic thing is there.

But I'm not sure that I've taught how to hold items between the incisors, although I can see how that would help. How do I do that?

I will keep it easy and I will put more articles than I need in the square when I move away from the 4 poles. I'll move to a full size square when I think the penny has dropped with the poles. I suppose this will be when the dog runs immediately to the 4 poles and doesn't waste time doing anything else?

Thanks again.
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*Lorraine*
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27-11-2011, 03:46 PM
In my article bag I have astro turf squares (assorted sizes)
Spent shotgun cartridges
rubber hose of different lengths
Leather strips (from old collars)
Film cases
wooden jigsaw pieces (charity shops often have large sized ones)
I'm always picking things up for my bag
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runningrabbit
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27-11-2011, 03:54 PM
Thanks. I will try to find some of those items too.
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smokeybear
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27-11-2011, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by runningrabbit View Post
Thanks for your help.


But I'm not sure that I've taught how to hold items between the incisors, although I can see how that would help. How do I do that?

I do this by sitting in a chair and commanding the dog to hold the item and me holding other end, start off with largish articles.

I then proof it, by picking up his flews, tugging the article so the dog learns to keep it between the teeth with no mouthing, crunching, swallowing etc
.

I will keep it easy and I will put more articles than I need in the square when I move away from the 4 poles. I'll move to a full size square when I think the penny has dropped with the poles. I suppose this will be when the dog runs immediately to the 4 poles and doesn't waste time doing anything else?

Thanks again.
I put in articles at each corner and in the middle of the square.

I also put the poles on command.
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