people dont. well crested people certainly dont. its an exxageration just to slate pedigree dog owners yet again. thats what this woman does and enjoys doing.

exactly it seems to be its ok to do things to working dogs, but do something to a show dog and your a cruel horrible owner. my dog gets her faced trimmed with electric clippers. and no she isnt distressed. she sits down between my legs, tail wagging patiently while i trim her, then when i say done she jumps up and carries on doing whatever it was she was doing before.

theyre not poor little things though. just because they have their coat clipped it doesnt mean they are unhappy dogs. bet they wagged their tails at you or gave you a good lick you dont see them moping about tail in between legs cowering because of how their hair is cut.

My gang are trimmed regularly, . . the whiskers mainly, but Smeagsey's a hairy sod, her back feathers are outrageous.

my point is not weather iots cruel or not. The thing that makes a hairless dog is just THAT!!! That it is hairless, Surely to "cheat" on that bit is fundamentali important. If the slightly fuzzier ones are healthier thn the breed standard should be changed, so abit of fuzz will win over bad teeth

I think the point I would like to know here is....do you think its cruel for a poodle to be shaved / clipped for work purposes?

if not then surely its not cruel to do it to a show dog.

the thing is, its got to be one or the other....

does it distress the dog? thats what I want to know?



Right then - I will commit to an opinion. I do believe it is cruel to shave a dog down to its skin for whatever purpose, show or work - and it is even worse to use hair removing creams or tweezers or plucking on them - the hair protects the skin from damage - sun, cold etc. To clip a dog I do not think is cruel - with some coats it is very necessary as without clipping they would become unmanageable, matted and impossible to brush properly. As for distress, some dogs get upset and awkward about being clipped, it depends on the dog. Grooming and tidying up is necessary for all dogs (just like us humans) - my dogs in particular as they have fairly long coats. Fortunately and because they have always been regularly groomed they enjoy the experience and attention this means. They are used to it.

No the kidneys are not on the end of the tail, but if I am correct then the pom on the end of the tail enabled the dog to use the tail more efficiently as a rudder.


The loin clip served a purpose , for want of a better way to describe it, it provided a "lifebelt" to help the dog in the water, and thats why the poms over the kidneys were left on, to protect them ..

Now no one is pretending that the owners of those dogs (when working) would have take the time in being so precise in the way they clipped, as the show person does, but the origins of the clip are what they are. a working some what preened clip.


Quiet like them actually, did they look poor and sorry for themselves at DD.

I cant comment on the Lowchen, but the Portuses Water Dog has the same clip, again a clip that originates to its working background...(they still work and are clipped out) , they are water dogs, that work with the fishermen in the cold Atlantic waters... the clip again to a "life jacket" to help them stay afloat in the rough see.




So why is it different in a dog thats is not stressed with being shaved as long as it is "used to it" and does not get stressed, as you say, whats wrong with grooming and preparation of the coat, regardless of whether its a show dog or pet.

thats exactly what ive said. daphni is used to having her faced shaved and doesnt make a fuss about it. i dont see the problem with it. and by the way flatcoats get trimmed too

So why is it different in a dog thats is not stressed with being shaved as long as it is "used to it" and does not get stressed, as you say, whats wrong with grooming and preparation of the coat, regardless of whether its a show dog or pet.


It is not different. As I said I think shaving a dog down to the skin for whatever reason (show or work) is wrong - whether it gets stressed or not is not the issue - It has nothing to do withbeing OK if it is used to it (that was not what I said). There is also nothing wrong with grooming and preparation regardless of whether it is a show dog or pet. Grooming is essential and should be part of routine care.

I can't believe that it's been suggested that a lion clip is cruel????

The PWD is worked in it's clip. It is functional and the dogs do not suffer from having it done. I shave poodles faces and feet all the time. They don't mind. I shave dog's inside legs, bellies and testicles and they don't mind. A working or show clip is not detrimental to a dog's wellbeing.

You should see most of the pet dogs that I groom on a daily basis. Gunge caked around the eyes that has to be cut out with scissors, matted fur, over grown nails sometimes embedded in the pads, rotten teeth and obesity are what I deal with on a daily basis. At least people who are 'preening' their dogs for the show ring don't neglect them like this. Time for some perspective I think!