It really doesn't make sense. Nature Reserves here do not allow dogs that are not under control and a dog chasing wildlife is certainly not under control.

I assume that you are allowing your dogs to chase deer illegally? Also, when you come out of the dog park with your dogs off-lead - I assume that is illegal too?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought leash laws in America were stricter than ours here or is it just a case that you disregard them?

Leash laws in America are very strict. There are few places dogs can be off leash legally. Many people break the laws (admittedly, I do on occasion but my dog stays at my side and does not worry wildlife and it's easier to take photos while not holding a leash), but that doesn't make it right.

Frankly, I've found the worst offenders the shock collar crowd. They get told that it's ok to have their dogs off leash, that they're "under control" and blah blah blah. I've been approached by so many shocked dogs since moving to this area (we have a branch of this horrible "training" company called Sit Means Sit just up the road) and it irritates me to no end. Many of them act like NickyAnn..."Well, MY dog is trained to be off leash." No. It's not. It's shocked in order to stop it from doing anything. That's not training.

I've heard many tales about that particular training company

Nicki - that sounds an interesting collar. Our's is a Dogtra with just 2 functions ... shock and vibrate, with different levels under each function. With a dog like Ben, it was the only choice and it was the correct one. The use of an e-collar would always be a last resort with me, never a first.

The biggest problem with e-collars is the negative attitude that they bring out in many people who immediately develop a closed mind, the shutters come down and they cannot see through their blinkered views. I think I ought to video Ben getting ready for a walk ... his e collar goes on and he is released out onto the drive to jump into the back of the car. This usually takes several minutes because he is so excited jumping up and down and wooing with joy at going out for a walk. He would resist every attempt to put on the collar if it was an instrument of torture ... and this is a dog who took 3 adults to hold him whilst having stitches out in his ear!!

Gnasher, you are very brave to discuss this subject so openly and honestly on this forum. I totally agree that certain breeds of dog have stronger instincts and can be much harder to train for off lead control. Many people have considered using remote collars especially when other methods such as long-line training etc can require much more time/commitment, I also know of collars being used when there are extreme safety issues involved.

Remote collars are not for me but I can see that the desicison to use a collar on your dog was clearly not taken lightly, you have researched its use and trained responsibly with it.

Nikki, are you sure you want to form an alliance with this person,simply because you have found a kindred spirit on e.collars... It's a little sad Nikki that you have not been around for mths and yet as soon as this vile individual pops up you latch onto her for support with your e.collar.

Have you not worked out yet what she is about..

To be honest, Gnasher. I'm surprised you are letting him out off lead from your door to your car. I thought he was dog aggressive and it is a shared drive where problems have occurred before?

I see the subject of e collars has raised its ugly head again

Did anyone see this item in the news this week about a woman who among other things used an e collar on a child
The fact that most dogs are covered in fur means marks made by e collars may not be evident but the pain inflicted and the principle of inflicting pain are the same whatever living thing it is used on.

To me I see very little difference between inflicting pain on a child or on a dog, they are both sentient beings requiring kindness, consideration and duty of care from us all .

Those who inflict pain on dogs using e collars should be in court for animal abuse.

Hopefully, England and Scotland will soon follow in Wales' footsteps and ban them.

Wish the USA would but in a country so tired to our painful means of expression (guns, shock collars, spanking kids, etc.) I can't quite imagine it happening.

But OH to put Sit Means Sit out of business. I'd throw a party!