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Carole
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10-05-2007, 03:58 PM

Breeding - Should your dogs have to prove themselves first?

Should your dogs have to prove themselves in the show ring or working trials etc before any breeding is undertaken? How should health and temperament come into it the equation?
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Mahooli
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10-05-2007, 04:20 PM
That's a difficult one, you could have a cracking dog that just simply doesn't enjoy being shown, can't comment on the working side of it. I think at the very least your dog should be evaluated by an experienced breeder who can tell you the good and bad points of your dogs, such as like at an assessment day.
Certainly it must, without doubt, be health tested and have a sound temperament.
Becky
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surannon
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10-05-2007, 04:23 PM
Should your dogs have to prove themselves in the show ring or working trials etc before any breeding is undertaken?
Oh absolutely yes IMO! And health and breed specific temperament should be of utmost importance too.

I know that there are a few rare occasions when a top producer doesn't do well in it's chosen field but produces offspring that will, but that, to my mind, is a risky game and should only be undertaken when the breeder has years of knowledge and experience under their belts.

I've met loads of people who think they have a fabulous dog at home but aren't interested in any activities with their dogs. It's only when they go to a show or working event that they are able to see that maybe their dog isn't the world-beater they thought it was and that they were looking through rose coloured glasses.

Debs
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Jackie
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10-05-2007, 04:26 PM
I think to a point yes they should prove themselves first..but as pointed out, in some cases a good example just may not be happy in the ring.. as long as you have had a respected opinion, guiding you on the qaulity of said dog.....

To me health, temperment,type , go hand in hand.... you should not breed unless you have all 3.
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Ramble
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10-05-2007, 04:33 PM
I think it is vital that before breeding every health check possible should be carried out on both parents. I believe that only parents that are healthy and of a good temprament should be bred from.
I don't think that said parents should have had to 'prove' themselves in a show or working environment, I don't think that they should have to be outstanding examples of the breed in order to be bred from, I just think they should be healthy and well socialised and well behaved.
Why not breed for a pet market? Most dogs are pets. I know very few working or show dogs. (Actually I know a LOT of working dogs but in a different way...) The majority of dogs are pets.
To only offer pet owners the choice of working or show dogs is, IMO wrong and somewhat dangerous. The 'family' nature or temprament of them isn't necessarily high on the breeders list of 'must haves' (even if a friendly outdgoing nature is in the breed standard, that is difficult to show in a show ring). A dog bred for the pet market, would, ideally, be a happy, friendly 'family' dog that is also healthy.

There has been another line of argument that 'pet' owners should go to rescue to find a pet. Granted, there are a vast number of dogs in rescue, some of which would actually make good working dogs as well. Why should the avergae Jo pet owner only have the choice of specific working or show dogs, or a rescue??? Why not a dog that has been bred for health and temprament...even if it is a first generation cross???

Breeding for temprament and health in a pet market does not make someone a byb...far from it, if the checks etc are in place it makes them a reputable breeder, who know that there will be a market for their pups, just because they are not breeding for show or for the dogs to work, doesn't make them a byb.

I would happily buy a mongrel whose parents I could meet and see that they had good tempraments and who had all their health checks done. Why not??
It is breeders like that, the ones that do it quietly for the pet market, that only breed the odd litter, that know exactly where their pups go to and take an interest in them etc, that we should be encouraging.
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pod
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10-05-2007, 04:39 PM
quote: spot
Even though Im against breeding at least I can see that show breeders are breeding for a purpose to improve the breed and usually to bring a pup on for showing. To breed just for the pet market makes you nothing more than a byb. As Moobli has pointed out there are already enough dogs out there waiting for homes without breeding just to produce pets and as you yourself have stated the majority of show breeders pups end up in pet homes so what is the purpose of breeding to produce pet quality dogs?

Why shouldnt pet dogs be bred to just the same high standards as show dogs?

Show breeders are breeding for a purpose yes, to produce show dogs. Whether this actually improves the breed is another thing altogether. You only have to consider the health problems that are a direct result of breeding for showring exaggerations to see that this is not always in the best interests of the breeds.

I would consider a purposely bred pet litter, with all the relevant health checks, to be a better proposition as a healthy pet, than a show bred one with the same health checks.
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IanTaylor
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10-05-2007, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I think it is vital that before breeding every health check possible should be carried out on both parents. I believe that only parents that are healthy and of a good temprament should be bred from.
I don't think that said parents should have had to 'prove' themselves in a show or working environment, I don't think that they should have to be outstanding examples of the breed in order to be bred from, I just think they should be healthy and well socialised and well behaved.
Why not breed for a pet market? Most dogs are pets. I know very few working or show dogs. (Actually I know a LOT of working dogs but in a different way...) The majority of dogs are pets.
To only offer pet owners the choice of working or show dogs is, IMO wrong and somewhat dangerous. The 'family' nature or temprament of them isn't necessarily high on the breeders list of 'must haves' (even if a friendly outdgoing nature is in the breed standard, that is difficult to show in a show ring). A dog bred for the pet market, would, ideally, be a happy, friendly 'family' dog that is also healthy.

There has been another line of argument that 'pet' owners should go to recue to find a pet. Granted, there are a vast number of dogs in rescue, some of which would actually make good working dogs as well. Why should the avergae Jo pet owner only have the choice of sepcific working or show dogs, or a rescue??? Why not a dog that has been bred for health and temprament...even if it is a first generation cross???

Breeding for tmeprament and health in a pet market does not make someon a byb...far from it, if the checks etc are in place it makes them a reputable breeder, who knows that there will be a market for their pups, just because they are not breeding for show or for the dogs to work, doesn't make them a byb.

I would happily buy a mongrel whose parents I could meet and see that they had good tempraments and who had all their health checks done. Why not??
It is breeders like that, the ones that do it quietly for the pet market, that only breed the odd litter, that know exactly where their pups go to and take an interest in them etc, that we should be encouraging.
Well said... totally agree
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Ramble
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10-05-2007, 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by IanTaylor View Post
Well said... totally agree

Now steady on !!!! :smt002
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IanTaylor
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10-05-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post

Now steady on !!!! :smt002
It's ok.. Doctor is on the way
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surannon
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10-05-2007, 04:53 PM
Most show dogs are 'pets' first and showdogs second. The temperament is no worse to that of a 'pet bred' litter, in fact in most cases, it's better, as the breeder who shows will be experienced and will expose their puppies to much more than than an inexperienced breeder (who's just breeding because 'Flossy' would make a lovely mother) will so they're confident and outgoing when they go to a show. Does someone wanting 'just' a pet not deserve the same quality as a showdog?

Debs
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