I disagree that it is always down to training. One male Labrador I know of who was left entire until he was around 3-4 years old was awful, displaying exactly the type of behaviour as I outlined in my last post (salivating, frothing at the mouth, licking other male dogs male parts, frantic humping, etc.). When he was neutered, all of this stopped completely and he was like a different dog.

As for the dog that ran out of the park, no mine were not in season. Mine are all spayed/neutered. That particular dog is one I have to now go out of my way to avoid completely because I simply cannot deal with a dog that behaves like that or its incompetent owner.

In the 'real world' (if you know what I mean ) I find people tend to be more pro-neuter. But, on the internet, I find it is the opposite. I don't find it offensive, but I dislike when people imply that getting your dog neutered means you aren't responsible enough to care properly for an entire dog.

I find people suggesting that neutering healthy males is a 'problem in the dog world' very offensive...

I think that totally yes a LOT of it down to training and in an ideal world everyone would train their dogs and keep control of them. Unfortunately we live in a reality where there are a lot of people who have little or no understanding of how to train their dog, or simply do not care that their dog runs riot. Do we really want to add entire males to the never ending lists of complaints about dog walkers we see even just on this board?


For what it's worth, I have known of three entire males, that all had behavioural issues fixed by neutering. Two were agility dogs and one was a working gun dog. So its not always purely down to non trained dogs. On the other hand people think that neutering will result in an instantly trained dog and fix all issues when we all know it doesn't.

As always there is no black and white answer and a lot depends on the individual dog and of course the owner.

Having never gotten a dog from a breeder and never will do they not also have a contract that basically is not worth the paper it's written on? Oh and is this one of the rules that should be broken can we have a nudge nudge smillie as well

I totally agree that there are some people out there who would do just that and rescues and breeders should be looking to make sure this happens.

Like I say I agree with all rescues being neutered it just seems that some posts have implied that joe public get rescues and are not as responsible as someone getting from a breeder.

Apparently all rules are made to be broken

I'm not saying Joe Public get rescues, of course they also buy dogs from breeders, and there are plenty of responsible people who get rescues too. The rescues are simply trying to fix the problem of overbreeding and trying to stop their animal from falling into the wrong hands. I guess a breeder could also insist on neutering (I'm sure some do). At the end of the day it's up the the individual where they purchase the animal from if they don't like how things are run then buy from elsewhere

Haha yeah I'm sure some do have contracts, mine didn't. But like you say they arent worth the paper they are written on some can understand why rescues insist on neutering before they dog leaves them.

Someone once told me that if rescues didn't neuter they would basically be dealers, middle men who take in animals and sell them on...... I'm not sure a agree as how do they make a profit for a start, but it was an interesting point to ponder.

I probably wouldn't get a dog from the Dogs Trust because I don't really agree with their never put a healthy dog down theory, especially when I know they fund certain types of research but that's my decision, everyone else is free to make up their own minds

Completely agree with Smokey ^^

Also, as have been discussed recently on Dogsey, there are far better, safer ways to 'neuter' dogs (castration isn't the only option!) and I can't see why anyone who cares about dogs, would not choose a safer method.

Just out of interest, why CANNOT a breeder insist on you neutering a dog you purchase from them? Surely if it is part of a sale contract agreed by both parties at the outset, this would be no different from the contract entered when a dog is 'adopted' from a rescue?

I can see why most breeders 'would not' for various reasons, but I'm not sure about the 'could not'?

Thanks for reminding me of that thread.

This was my last post on it, having read the studies etc.

<<Even the author of the second study says they feel it wouldn't be appropiate for the majority of the dog population---I quoted that in a post but that was ignored.

Re the other study---the one by the organisation which lost my respect as soon as I looked into it.

I have now read it and it has a lot of holes in it. The obvious one is the one pointed out by several people and again ignored---it didn't take into account behavioural issues.

Also the age of neutering was frequently mentioned and it would appear that if you neuter later a lot of the problems are negated.

A possibility of 4/1 that an unspayed bitch will get pyrometra is unacceptably high IMO.

Obesity being caused by neutering is ridiculous as an arguement against it---it is easy enough to make sure any dog doesn't get overweight. So the problems attached to obesity can be disregarded.

As a part of the conclusion the study says that

<<The balance of long-term health risks and benefits of spay/neuter will vary from one dog to the next. Breed,
age, and gender are variables that must be taken into consideration in conjunction with non-medical factors
for each individual dog. Across-the-board recommendations for all dogs do not appear to be supportable
from findings in the veterinary medical literature.>>

I see no reason given in either study to suggest that routine castration should be banned.>>>

All those points still stand and were not addressed on the other thread. They were taken straight from the studies.

rune

Actually a rescue can't do it either! They rely on people thinking they can.

rune

Exactly, taken from the very same study cited as a reason not to neuter yet overlooked.