It's exactly why entries were low, a lot of people didn't bother cos they already new the result before judging even took place! I'll PM you the class later, wouldn't want to get sued/upset anyone!

ohh gosh u know exactly what you mean...wonder what would happen if we all swapped dogs before going in the ring lol

Yes but if you attend enough shows under different judges (breed specialists and non breed specialists) you'll still get a good idea of whether your dog cuts the mustard.

Champ shows with breed specialist judging will always be worst for face judging, Open shows are generally no where near as bad. Plus you get the bonus of critiques so you can get an idea of exactly what faults your dog has etc.

I would still recommend showing a dog before considering breeding for the above reasons.

Now wouldn't that be fun.

When I was watching the group judging at Crufts this year I was wondering about this. Geoff Corish was handling the CC winning Kerry Blue (my breed) which won 3rd in the group and also handling the CC winning Bichon Frise (my Sister's breed) which came 4th in group. I wondered if the fact that he was a top international handler had any effect on the placings? Could be detrimental I suppose if the judges didn't want it to seem as if they were face judging it may have cost him higher place? I remember him winning BIS with a Lhasa Apso Saxonsprings Fresno in 1985 I think.

o wow dang

I was at a breed show one year, we were in the progeny class, and I actually overheard the judge asking the steward who the people were in the ring. He made his placements based on what the steward told him

Funny you should mention this as I said the exact same thing to Clive...(who didn't have a clue what I was on about ). I mentioned that the fact Geoff Corish was showing someones dog for them must mean they are in with a chance!

We've said tha before Kerry if every one swapped dogs before going into the ring what would happen then would the same handler win or would the unknown handler with the big winning dog get placed? I know which I think. The problem with whippets and greyhounds is they can be so individual with their markings although they can also be very similar.

The breed judges who also show the breed would know which were the top dogs regardless who was handling it.

A person I work with shows pigeons and told me they are put in cages and the owners have to leave the room so the judges do not know who owns the birds. They asked me why dogs are not judged like this. Try explaining to some one who knows nothing about dogs but think they do that at dog shows the dogs movement is assessed too.

Its how most poultry and small mammals are shown I think.