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Zara's_Momma
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Zara's_Momma is offline  
Location: Wirral, Cheshire UK
Joined: Nov 2009
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Female 
 
22-02-2010, 11:09 AM

Female mounting another dog?!

Hi all, well I posted a while back about Zara's behaviour towards other dogs.
When she spots another dog, she will run up to it and bark, but not a big deep-chested bark, but a yelp, she has hurt her self . This behaviour is due to lack of socialization when she was a pup. She seriously hurt her shoulder and could not be around ANYTHING that would excite her, which would be other dogs. Even on the lead, I remember her straining when she was about four months old to go and play with another pup on the other side of the road. In this sense I feel extremely sorry for her, that she never got to play and now, as she is about 22 months old, other dog owners dislike her due to her size, vocal skills () and breed.
For this reason, we keep her on the lead when we see other dogs.
Today, her only friend was at the park (a GSD x) his owner is perfectly happy with Zara playing with her dog, as we know each other well and she loves Zara. Anyway, the game started with Zara doing her best 'yelp' possible. After about two minutes of this, she stopped. They had a good game of chase and 'mid-air wrestling' but then, to my horror, she jumped on his back and mounted him . I was shocked to say the least. It only lasted no more than five seconds then they continued playing.
Is this normal behaviour??? I have always been aware that Zara is a very dominant dog, but I've never heard of this?
Honestly, at the time, I didn't correct her for this, as I am not sure if this is normal? If it isn't how should I correct her?

Also, I'm going to take my camera with me the next time we go to the park, if we see Zara's pal again, I'll make a recording of her strange barking to see what you guys think. Zara's trainer says she is just enticing a game, but I would be interested in hearing what you think!

Thanks.
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Labman
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22-02-2010, 11:16 AM
It is a very common behavior. The traditional explanation is that it has to do with pack rank and dominance. She is letting him know she outranks him.

I have not heard how those that want to throw out pack rank and dominance explain it.
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wilbar
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22-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Yes, mounting behaviour in female dogs is not uncommon, so don't be unduly worried by it. If the mounted dog is worried & your dog persists, then it could be a problem for the mounted dog. My friend's female ridgeback x does it to my male lab whenever play sessions get a bit exciting, or sometimes to initiate play. As my dog has hip dysplasia & as the ridgeback x is quite large, we tend to discourage it!

But that is what it is ~ play. It is not a sexual behaviour & not a "dominance" behaviour. It is a social overture to play & a normal canine response, commonly occurring, especially in adolescents, who experience emotional arousal. As the dog becomes excited during play this is a social behaviour/motor pattern that occurs.

At the risk of being anthropomorphic, but in an attempt to explain it, I would liken this behaviour to a couple of adolescent humans playfighting, e.g. one grabs the other from behind, they wrestle a bit & one ends sitting on the other. Yes sometime adolescent males use this as a display of strength, to test each other out & to practice these sort of behaviours in case they're needed in future. But in this scenario it is not sexual & it is not one person trying to "dominate" another ~ it is just play!

So as long as the other dog doesn't mind, as long as it is short-lived, & as long as your dog doesn't start doing it to every dog she meets, then I wouldn't worry about it all.
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Tessabelle
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22-02-2010, 02:52 PM
Not sure if this will help but wanted to share;
I grew up on a farm and I can assure you that mounting is perfectly natural for all genders. The cattle do it all the time, mum only has females as she sells the bull calfs on. I was even mounted by a female calf when I was about 11, quite traumatic not sure how it didn't take off my ears!!!

Back to dogs though, I recently got a book, think it's called 'the 101 stupidest things people say about dogs' I reserve judgement on some of her theories but 'mounting' is discussed and the theory is that it is expressing deep joy and happiness. You may have noticed that sometimes it's the shoulder or even head of the other dog which has no sexual reference at all (the cattle do this, nothing funnier than a cow trying to dry hump another cows head?! ) Bentley has made lots of friends but his very best friend is Winston and he humps his shoulder when they are playing. I totally agree with the adolescent boy comparison.

Personally though, the jury is still out on him humping my arm
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Meg
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22-02-2010, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Labman View Post
It is a very common behavior. The traditional explanation is that it has to do with pack rank and dominance. She is letting him know she outranks him.

I have not heard how those that want to throw out pack rank and dominance explain it.
Labman you frequently tell us all you are a dog expert who knows better than anyone here and someone who has been entrusted with the care of 20 guide dog puppies it is quite clear to me from your post that you have made little attempt to understand the puppies in your care, I find you post both scary and sad.
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Meg
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22-02-2010, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by wilbar View Post
Yes, mounting behaviour in female dogs is not uncommon, so don't be unduly worried by it. If the mounted dog is worried & your dog persists, then it could be a problem for the mounted dog. My friend's female ridgeback x does it to my male lab whenever play sessions get a bit exciting, or sometimes to initiate play. As my dog has hip dysplasia & as the ridgeback x is quite large, we tend to discourage it!

But that is what it is ~ play. It is not a sexual behaviour & not a "dominance" behaviour. It is a social overture to play & a normal canine response, commonly occurring, especially in adolescents, who experience emotional arousal. As the dog becomes excited during play this is a social behaviour/motor pattern that occurs.

At the risk of being anthropomorphic, but in an attempt to explain it, I would liken this behaviour to a couple of adolescent humans playfighting, e.g. one grabs the other from behind, they wrestle a bit & one ends sitting on the other. Yes sometime adolescent males use this as a display of strength, to test each other out & to practice these sort of behaviours in case they're needed in future. But in this scenario it is not sexual & it is not one person trying to "dominate" another ~ it is just play!

So as long as the other dog doesn't mind, as long as it is short-lived, & as long as your dog doesn't start doing it to every dog she meets, then I wouldn't worry about it all.
Hi Wilbar , I agree and would say the behaviour described is perfectly normal and has nothing to do with dominance or sexual behaviour.

I think dogs practise a range of behaviours and sometimes for example when they are over excited they 'forget themselves' and choose an inappropriate behaviour out of their repertoire of behaviours .

My neighbours Rhodesian Ridgeback Daisy (a young rescue bitch with a lovely temperament ) is very short of playmates and gets so very excited when she meets my dog, the only one who will play with her, she gets quite carried away . Daisy mounts my dog and sometimes even tries to pick her up as she does with her own toy dog. My little dog in a friendly way makes it quite clear that the behaviour is not acceptable so no harm done. I don't need to intervene .
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Labman
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22-02-2010, 06:19 PM
Minihaha, have you looked at a calendar recently? Mine says 2010.
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labradork
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22-02-2010, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Labman View Post
Minihaha, have you looked at a calendar recently? Mine says 2010.
Are you sure it didn't say 1950?
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wilbar
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23-02-2010, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Hi Wilbar , I agree and would say the behaviour described is perfectly normal and has nothing to do with dominance or sexual behaviour.

I think dogs practise a range of behaviours and sometimes for example when they are over excited they 'forget themselves' and choose an inappropriate behaviour out of their repertoire of behaviours .

My neighbours Rhodesian Ridgeback Daisy (a young rescue bitch with a lovely temperament ) is very short of playmates and gets so very excited when she meets my dog, the only one who will play with her, she gets quite carried away . Daisy mounts my dog and sometimes even tries to pick her up as she does with her own toy dog. My little dog in a friendly way makes it quite clear that the behaviour is not acceptable so no harm done. I don't need to intervene .
Hi Minihaha ~ glad we're in agreement & there's nothing like seeing the context in which this mounting behaviour occurs to provide an explanation. In the vast majority of cases I've seen of female mounting it happens during play, & at times where the dogs are very friendly towards each other. Neither dog appears to get cross or aggressive, it's just a case of "get off me you stupid lump"! & then they carry on playing

I've also seen the mounting behaviour between neutered males & very often between a neutered male & an adolescent entire male ~ it's the neutered male that does the humping!! My male lab sometimes mounts young entire males & it would be easy to label this as dominance behaviour but I think that it is really a case of "I'll show you, you little upstart!" Possibly similar to an older, more life-experienced adolescent male giving a verbal put down to a younger boy who was showing off a bit. But I wouldn't call this being dominant in the sense that my dog is trying to establish a rank or hierarchy, as he just as quickly takes his turn with a food treat, or allows that young dog to go first through a gate, or allows him access to any other resource.

I don't tend to intervene in any case where it is clear that the dogs are not upset by the behaviour & no-ne is getting hurt. Funnily enough I find that men with entire male dogs seem to be more upset when their dog is humped than their dog is. ~ no offence intended to anyone here!
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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23-02-2010, 03:50 PM
Yup Mia mounts Ben sometimes when play has got a little hyper
and often as not she is there grabbed onto him with a totaly surprised look on her face
If it was sexual Ben would have something to say, he does NOT let dogs mount him when they try it when they are sniffing then try and mount
Infact it dosent bother him at all, he sometimes just walks about with her ontop of him

Similar is her standing over him, sometimes when he is lying down she stands over him and basically is waving her bits in his face, if he moves she moves slightly so her bits are still over him
again it dosent seem to be sexual or dom or anything cos he mainly just ignores her
I think most of these behaviours are over excitment or attention seeking

- and outside plenty of my dogs friends have a hump fest when they are overcited - I have seen Ben with 3 dogs mounting different sides of him, then they all carry on playing

I would deff not correct play behaviour, espech if both dogs carry on playing after
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