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ClaireandDaisy
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Location: Essex, UK
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12-01-2010, 12:01 PM
There are some things a dog can`t do on lead. Exploring, swimming, wild games, getting filthy etc. Dog things. Also an on-lead dog has a different attitude / body laguage so it is difficult for them to interact with other dogs.
I know a lot of dogs are never let off lead for various reasons - Medical, behavioural etc. And a lot of people think small dogs are fine on extending leads and never let them off.
Personally I have a problem with this. The same way I have a problem with birds in cages. This may be a personal prejudice, but I think a dog misses out on a lot of what it means to be a dog if never off lead, and the owner misses out on a lot of the fun.
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Helena54
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12-01-2010, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Yes all dogs need to run.....but I don't think they should be allowed ...how to put it.....uncontrolled....possibly not the best word... free running on a walk.

My theory is that dogs (from pups) should not have 'walks' till they are about 1year/18months.....each time the dog goes out it shoule be a training session.

Whether that is to work on recalls...loose lead walking....socialisation....retrieves.....it doesn't matter - but the time with the dog should enevr just be treated as free time for the dog.
I tell all my classes this and they seem to breath a sigh of relief! Often when we are tlaking about training sesisone everyday you can see them mentally calculating how they are going to get on with thier lives when they have to train the dogs a couple of time, walk is a couple of times and deal with everything else they have to do.

I would treat a resuce the same....but there would not be such a fixed time scale.

Does that make sense?
Are you saying then, that everytime you take your dog out if it's under 18 months old, it has to spend the whole time being trained???!!!

My theory is, train the dog up well, the most important being the recall and focus, and once you've got it, you've got it! You are obviously going to USE the commands over and over again on any old walk anyway aren't you, so why do you have to keep on and on at the dog training something that's already instilled? Just let the dog have some fun I say, once it's trained well from the start!
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Hevvur
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12-01-2010, 12:07 PM
I think I would have said 'Yes', if it wasn't for me having Teagan, wh under no circumstances can go offlead unless there are no dogs ANYWHERE near by.

Does she suffer from being onlead all the time? Not at all!
We went on a longish walk on Sunday (Silverdale).
She got to go offlead on the beach for 5 mins - did she run around - no! She hardly moved from my side!
So pretty much the whole walk was spent on lead (like usual). She's still tired!
I let her sniff things, and let her walk over to things to investigate, and it really tires her out!

Going to training for an hour a week also tires her out more than an offlead run would!

I'm not saying she always has to walk.....I jog a little when i'm feeling well, and she has an extendable lead for on the park/beach. She doesn't walk in a straight line anyway, and loves to sniff everything!

So....My answer is 'No'. I don't think dogs 'NEED' to have a run offlead - as long as they get the stimulation elsewhere!
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Hevvur
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12-01-2010, 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
There are some things a dog can`t do on lead. Exploring, swimming, wild games, getting filthy etc. Dog things. Also an on-lead dog has a different attitude / body laguage so it is difficult for them to interact with other dogs.
I know a lot of dogs are never let off lead for various reasons - Medical, behavioural etc. And a lot of people think small dogs are fine on extending leads and never let them off.
Personally I have a problem with this. The same way I have a problem with birds in cages. This may be a personal prejudice, but I think a dog misses out on a lot of what it means to be a dog if never off lead, and the owner misses out on a lot of the fun.
I disagree

Teagan goes swimming - I even get in the water with her! She investigates, and boy does she get muddy (as do I!) - thats what wellies and waterproofs are for!
She doesn't interact well with other dogs, so I know she's not missing out on much.
She gets to play with Max and Murphy (Isochicks dogs) when we see them - but even then she chooses to walk away from them and mooch about on her own!
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Jackie
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12-01-2010, 12:09 PM
I think ALL dogs need stimulating exerscie, be they get that free running or on th elead, matters not.

I think dogs enjoy free running and their is nothing nicer than seeing dogs off lead enjoying themsleves.


Do I think dogs who for what ever reason are not off the lead all or most of the time, are in any way lacking a good life, No!!

Its down to the commitment of the owner in making sure their dogs are happy healthy and enjoy their walks.
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Tassle
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12-01-2010, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Are you saying then, that everytime you take your dog out if it's under 18 months old, it has to spend the whole time being trained???!!!

My theory is, train the dog up well, the most important being the recall and focus, and once you've got it, you've got it! You are obviously going to USE the commands over and over again on any old walk anyway aren't you, so why do you have to keep on and on at the dog training something that's already instilled? Just let the dog have some fun I say, once it's trained well from the start!
No - you use the walk as a training time....big difference.

Why do you have to train the same things on every walk? I don't think I ever said that. Till Siren was 8 months she was never walked with my other dogs...We went out every day - a socialistion walk (town or similar) and a more formal training walk - self control being the main exercises - sometimes we worked on waiting for the ball - sometimes we worked on instant downs - sometimes we played chase for recalls.
After this time she was able to go on walks with the others as i had enough control to call her off when her herding got too much - we still did training - it was just progressing all the time.

I find it odd that people think that training is a boring thing for the owner and the dog.

I have SO much fun training my guys on walks - I still do it - becasue its fun - I don't really need to.
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Jackie
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12-01-2010, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
There are some things a dog can`t do on lead. Exploring, swimming, wild games, getting filthy etc. Dog things. Also an on-lead dog has a different attitude / body laguage so it is difficult for them to interact with other dogs.
I know a lot of dogs are never let off lead for various reasons - Medical, behavioural etc. And a lot of people think small dogs are fine on extending leads and never let them off.
Personally I have a problem with this. The same way I have a problem with birds in cages. This may be a personal prejudice, but I think a dog misses out on a lot of what it means to be a dog if never off lead, and the owner misses out on a lot of the fun.

You obviously have not seen mine them when they are on lead.

They can swim , or one does, get as muddy as the next dog, find muddy puddles, play doggy games and the most important thing, come home happy and contented.


I am not saying ALL dogs should be kept on leads, ofcause we all love to see our dogs running free, with doggy friends, but sometimes its just not possible, and when you hear some say things like " its cruel," "the dogs dont have a happy life" and the dogs are "missing out" it kind of grates a little, and can make you feel less an owner(not talking personally) than the person who allows their dog to run free .

There is a saying walk a mile in my shoes, !! then make these statements that dogs who are not allowed off lead are suffering, or such like.


I wonder sometimes if people think that dogs who are mainly on leads dont get any form of free runs, people have gardens, they find places where their dogs can have a run safely, and most importantly they ensure their and other dogs are safe,

A happy do gis one who is content, stimulated and exercised, regardless of how it is achieved.
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Helena54
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12-01-2010, 12:23 PM
Each to their own then I am still of the mind that once you've trained your dog well enough to know that it's not gonna run off, it's always, always going to come back no matter how far away or how many dogs it's playing with, it fetches the ball back everytime, it doesn't attack other dogs, it always waits for the lead to go on if necessary, it walks to heel if you want/need, then to me, there's not a lot else I need from any of my dogs?

If you find it that much fun, then obviously, that's why you have them, to train them into doing a lot, lot more, so you take them further into other fields, i.e. obedience, whatever, but if you're looking for just a pet dog with good manners, socialisation and obedience to a level for you to get by, then to me, watching my dogs running around having fun, sniffing, is all I can ask of them. Oh, and they have to be good onlead too, not dragging me down the road!
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labradork
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12-01-2010, 12:28 PM
I'm in the "yes" but also the "it depends on the dog" camp. Looking at my own dogs, my Yorkie probably wouldn't be too bothered if she didn't get off lead much. She gets off lead every day (generally, unless we only have time for a quick street walk) and rarely ventures from my side. For my Lab and my Slovak (particularly my Slovak) however, condemning to a life on lead would be extremely boring. They are active gundog breeds and cannot track interesting scents, sniff through the undergrowth, run like the wind, chase each other, etc., on a lead. Well, I suppose they could if they were attached to a long line but they are not at all practical for most places we walk.

One thing that really breaks my heart is seeing young, friendly dogs that are NEVER let off lead. There is one woman with a chocolate Lab that I see often see who has never let the dog off because "he won't come back". I also know of a Golden Retriever and a Border Terrier who have also never been let off the lead, because "he/she won't come back". Each of these people have had these dogs since they were pups. Now, who's fault is that the dog/s won't back? the owners! because they couldn't be bothered to train the dogs effectively, the dogs will now be stuck on lead for life. It is quite sad watching these dogs straining on their leads, DESPERATE to play and interact with other dogs, but they cannot.

Obviously I appreciate that there are many reasons that a dog should not be let off the lead. Some may be dog aggressive, have dangerously high (dangerous in the sense that the dog may put itself in a dangerous situation) prey drive, and so on, but to not make an effort with a pup is just silly. Most breeds, with work and effort on the owners part, have the ability to learn a decent recall. Not perfect, but decent. I don't believe in perfect recalls, or perfect anything where dogs are concerned.
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youngstevie
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12-01-2010, 12:34 PM
Knowing what a ''fish'' Skye is I have to agree with CD, I am not at all sure if I had to keep her on lead I'd fancy going in water in cold weather One of the delights for these is throwing a ball into the water.


I think alot of owners Not suggesting dogsey ones mind, do forget on walks that training is important. We do alot unconsciously really if you think about it, whistling them back, telling them to wait, stay down, fetch, here etc., so ttraining is ongoing in my mind on walks anyway, thats all part of the walk, although as I say we have met numerous owners who are so busy chatting they don't even know thier dog has wandered off, or gone over to others dogs, that annoyes me as you can not always rely on other dogs being as socialible
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