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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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14-02-2005, 10:59 PM
I have owned Kc Bulldogs that have keeled over just through walking around my back yard, not even doing hard activities, the last one i owned passed away at 10 months old
Must admit, IMO, the Bulldog as a breed is a sad dog to look at. Watched some of them go round at Crufts and they looked like they were fit to drop when they'd finished. Saddening really. Breeding them with longer noses and legs will surely make them healthier dogs, if done correctly?
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afc101
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15-02-2005, 01:53 PM
Ripsnorterthe2nd - this is why I think it’s a shame that American Bulldogs are not recognised by the KC so they can't appear at Crufts. I not an expert in this but the English Bulldog is so far from it's original breed standard, and IMO not a healthy breed. I think it’s a shame as American Bulldogs are an amazing breed; much more like the original bulldogs of old then the English bulldog is of today.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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15-02-2005, 02:22 PM
it’s a shame that American Bulldogs are not recognised by the KC so they can't appear at Crufts.
Yeah, have to agree with you there. That's why I was surprised when I found they weren't recognised by the KC! Perhaps it's because there are so many different types? I really like the bull/bulldog breeds, but not the English one it looks like they have no quality of life to me. I'd go for the American Bulldog any day!
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afc101
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15-02-2005, 02:49 PM
That's why I was surprised when I found they weren't recognised by the KC
I tried looking into this and depending on which theory you believe, the one I've read the most - "American Bulldog originated from English Bulldogs when migrants left England to go to America, taking their dogs with them (the working bulldog)” If this is the case than the American Bulldog of today has a much closer resemblance to the original bulldog than the English Bulldog has now.

I emailed KC to find out why they don't recognise the American Bulldog. Unfortunately didn't get very far with them, they just emailed me the telephone number of a breeder.

I've since spoken to someone who reckons that there are a couple of reason why they are not recognised 1) English Bulldogs enthusiast/breeders are against it 2) People trying to pass of American Pit bulls as American Bulldogs.
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Pita
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15-02-2005, 02:59 PM
Don't think the AB is recognised by the AKC or the FCI so it is very unlikely they would be recognised by the UK KC.

No breed is or one hope will be recognised by any of the official kennel clubs until it has breed type, is breeding true to type and has been doing so for a reasonable number of generations and that there is a sufficiently large gene pool for the continued health of the breed.
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afc101
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15-02-2005, 03:26 PM
Hi Thordel

As I’ve said in the post above I’m not an expert but I am interested. If you have the time could you explain further what you mean by; “until it has a breed type & breeding true to type” Do you mean that every time it bred the dog conforms to the same standard?

Thanks
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Archer
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15-02-2005, 03:45 PM
If you look at pictures of AB's you will see they are of very differing types.How can a breed standard be written when there are so many shapes and sizes,different ears etc.
I wonder...does anyone know how long AB's have been 'in existance' please?
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Pita
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15-02-2005, 04:21 PM
Think that dogs taken to the USA by English migrants were among those dogs used to produce the AB, to be fair I think they show more breed type than most of the large staffy type dogs, have no idea why none of the recognised kennel clubs have recognised them, guess there must be some reason.

Re: Large staffy type dogs, no offence intended to any one but don’t know how else to explain what I mean and I think that is understandable.
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eRaze
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15-02-2005, 04:22 PM
Did you know there are three different types of AB? Bully-type, Scott-type (my personal fave) and a combination of the two to create a third type, called performance type. I'm not an expert of the breed but I just wanted to point out that not all 'breeds' conform to what the KC constitues as 'type' guidelines. The Ab is an excellent example of this because it has types within type.

I also understand that some people get confused because they don't understand those fundamentals, but perhaps a bit of research would help before making such assumptions?

In terms of the VB tho, I think it is still quite 'new' meaning the type may differ extensively and people are outcrossing regularly (from what i've heard). I like whizgirls vb's but perosnally I prefer ABs because they have been around a lot longer and their type is built on solid foundation. jmo.
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Pita
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15-02-2005, 04:29 PM
That answers the question then, in order to be recognised they would have to have different names and be recognised by as seperate breeds by their own countries kennel club or by the FCI or that is what will normally happen.
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