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Malady
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30-05-2008, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by hades View Post
I think tho some breeds are more prone to "chase" live stock, cats and other animals because of a high prey drive, and thats what some of them were bred to do hunt. Does your bred have a high prey drive?
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Originally Posted by Malady View Post
Unfortunately you have a dog that has 2 breeds in it with a very high prey drive and are known sheep worriers !

Once prey drive kicks in, they dont hear anyone, instinct takes over.
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hades
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30-05-2008, 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
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???????....
I dont understand why you just quoted me?
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sallyinlancs
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30-05-2008, 12:22 PM
He does have a high prey drive in that he wants to CHASE - but as I have said, he is not aggressive towards livestock at all. Rather than 'hunt' them, he is only interested in playing with them. He seems to think sheep are dogs and want to play with him like dogs would - obviously the sheep don't agree!
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Ramble
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30-05-2008, 12:23 PM
Sorry, as unpopular as it is, your dog shouldn't be offlead around livestock. I don't see that there is any other option than keeping it on a lead. I don't agree with the use of ecollars to stop dogs sheep chasing, just so they can be offlead..when legally they shouldn't be offlead around the livestock anyway. Sorry.
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sallyinlancs
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30-05-2008, 12:27 PM
The problems is we are always around livestock. The fences used to keep livestock in are not dog-proof. To never let him off-lead for the rest of his life seems more cruel to me than trying to find a way to teach him only to play when I tell him it's OK.
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hades
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30-05-2008, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by sallyinlancs View Post
He does have a high prey drive in that he wants to CHASE - but as I have said, he is not aggressive towards livestock at all. Rather than 'hunt' them, he is only interested in playing with them. He seems to think sheep are dogs and want to play with him like dogs would - obviously the sheep don't agree!
I cant see it being a problen to train him out of it...it seems like its more of a game to him than anything else.
If he has caught up with one and playbowed...that to me would be a good sign...I mean if he wanted to he could of attacked.
The only thing is that a farmer wouldnt see it like that as you know...so I'd more worried about that.
Good luck with it all
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Ramble
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30-05-2008, 12:38 PM
http://www.naturenet.net/law/dogs.html

The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953
Under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 the owner and anyone else under whose control the dog is at the time will be guilty of an offence if it worries livestock on agricultural land. The dog must have been attacking or chasing livestock in such a way that it could reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering or, in the case of females, abortion or the loss or diminution of their produce. An offence is not committed if at the time of the worrying the livestock were trespassing, the dog belonged to the owner of the land on which the trespassing livestock were and the person in charge of the dog did not cause the dog to attack the livestock. The definition of 'livestock' includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses and poultry. Game birds are not included.

The Animals Act 1971
Civil liability arises from the Animals Act 1971. Anyone who is the keeper of a dog that causes damage by killing or injuring livestock is liable for the damage caused. For the purposes of the Act the keeper is the owner or the person in possession of the dog. The head of the household is liable where the owner is under the age of 16.

The keeper of the dog is not liable where the damage is due wholly to the fault of the person suffering it or if the livestock were killed or injured on land onto which they had strayed and either the dog belonged to the occupier or its presence was authorised by the occupier.

Under the Act there is a defence available to someone who is the subject of civil proceedings for killing or injuring a dog that was worrying or about to worry livestock. The defence can be used where there were no other means of ending or preventing the worrying or where the dog that had done the worrying was still in the vicinity and not under control and there were no practicable means of establishing ownership.

The definition of livestock in the 1971 Act is wider than in the 1953Act. Here it includes pheasants, partridges and grouse whilst in captivity.

Taken from... http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...estic/dogs.htm

I really do appreciate it must be difficult, but I wouldn't dream of letting my dogs offlead around livestock as you can never be sure. Even under 'close control' means your dog shouldn't be off playing in a field full of livestock, it should be at your side, so may as well be on a lead. I have no soloution for you, other than taking your dog elsewhere to free run it at times. Sorry, I am aware it's not ideal, but I truly don't think it's worth the risk for your dog or the livestock and I abhor shock collars, I don't think they should ever be used just because of livestock worrying, when the dogs should never get the chance to do that anyway. JMO.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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30-05-2008, 12:42 PM
you can train him to ignore sheep but it will take a while
in the mean time you HAVE to keep him under control and that means a long line or a lead at all times around livestock
If the farmer had seen him cornering a sheep he would have SHOT him
So it is for his own saftey to keep him on a lead
Also every time he chases that reinforces in his head that chasing is fun and its OK to ignore you

You have to make sure you are far more interesting to him than the sheep
that will 1st involve building up a huge bond away from the sheep
Lots of training - anything, tricks whatever so he learns to work with you and to like working with you
I would also do something like a 'follow me' command where he walks behind you (hes big enough for you to hold a treat to your bum) that can be less boring than heel and you can run around and change direction and then reward when he is following you
Then while keeping him on lead or long line every time you see something he would want to chase - before he is wanting to chase it have him to follow you

Also you could work on impulse control
In the area where he can be offlead get him in a down looking at you before you let him run off and play with a 'go play' command or whatever
Get a good stay on him and make him wait for things he really wants like he has to wait till you tell him till he goes through doors, to wait till you tell him to go for a ball you have chucked for him

It will take time cos it is a natural drive for him - but it is more than possible - farmers dont have to worry all the time their dogs are going to run off and chase sheep, even though that is their fave thing in the whole world they are trained to do it only when the farmer wants
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sallyinlancs
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30-05-2008, 12:55 PM
I would also do something like a 'follow me' command where he walks behind you (hes big enough for you to hold a treat to your bum) that can be less boring than heel and you can run around and change direction and then reward when he is following you
Then while keeping him on lead or long line every time you see something he would want to chase - before he is wanting to chase it have him to follow you
Thanks this is really useful advice! Of course I never let him off lead at the moment. But I would like (if possible) to get to the point where I can let him off-lead when we are NEAR livestock fields - i.e. within sight but separated by a livestock fence. At the moment he would just bolt and get over/under/through the fence if I were to let him off lead. As there is livestock everywhere around us (even adjacent to our local park), there really is nowhere to let him have a 'proper' run and play. If we could just walk alongside fields and have him listen to me better so that he respects the boundaries and fences, that's my goal.
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Ramble
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30-05-2008, 12:59 PM
Sorry I totally misunderstood you, I thought you wanted him offlead IN livestock fields....

In which case, Ben's advice is brilliant. There is loads you can do to ensure your dog is more focused on you than anything else...what is his recall like away from the area?
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