I have £140 for the e-collar and I believe I will get better results spending this on the e-collar - I'm not convinced that if I spend the same amount on other training methods that I will have such positive results. And yes, I believe it will be quicker too. I'd rather have him trained sooner than later.

I would rather be honest than get one and keep quiet about it. It seems to me that those who are dead against e-collars will always hold that opinion regardless. They seem to have either no experience at all of e-collars or have only seen them (or heard of them) used incorrectly.

I have no intention of hurting my dog with the e-collar.

None of the people described there used the collar correctly. They'd have been just as well off using a stick to beat their dogs as using the methods they used with the e-collar.

Refer to the thread 'Why NI?' and you will see the many reasons why I decided to get an NI. I do like the look of them of course, but their looks were one minor point amongst a plethora of reasons for my wanting one. I didn't get an NI 'cos they look good'.

There are many, many border collies who have problems with chasing livestock. Are you saying those that are trained to WORK with livestock are having their breed traits trained out of them?

You mean you think it's less cruel to keep my dog tied up for the rest of his life than to train him to exercise some self-control where his chasing is concerned. That's not 'working with them (breed traits)', that's merely keeping the problem tied up along with the dog.

what does training a dog cost? £140? no, only time & effort & abit of love a respect.

Your dog won't be tied up though if you take him somewhere appropriate to exercise him. Your dog won't be tied up if he is exercised on a longline.No tying up at all in fact.

I have no more to say except I pity your dog.

Hopefully people won't have the option to use a shock collar soon. Did i see that they have been banned in scotland already, or that the move is afoot to ban them? Hopefully England and Wales will follow suit shortly then there will not be the option to go for the quick fix and people may realise the severity of choosing to use these.

I believe they are going to be banned in Wales shortly, I am sure it will be just a matter of time before they are banned in all of the UK.

I was advised to use a rattle bottle with Jack, my little Lancashire heeler, now departed us for rainbow pastures. I rescued him from a terrible situation and he was full of problems. The shock and fear on his face the first time I used it made me want to cry! I threw the darn bottle away, bought a clicker instead and tried a different trainer. He never looked at a bottle of water the same way again. Hurt my heart that I had done that to him, I should have known better. In hindsight I was frustrated at how long it was taking him to understand my more gentle normal training methods and I fell for a quick fix.

I should add, I am not against rattle bottles per se. Rattle bottles are also a fear tool. Less painful and unfocused than the collar, they can be used to good effect in a confident dog, but if the problem stems from fear, more fear just doesn't help.

Great post, well said

Cruel owner alert here........My dog only gets let off lead once a week! shock horror!
6 days a week she walks on a long/retractable lead in the park, and on a Sunday we drive nearly an hour to the beach where she can free run, and there is no chance of her chasing anything, or meeting another dog.

Probably However, that may be because they've done their homework. Can I ask who is going to be training you?
Are you at a dog training school, or are you going private?
To my knowledge, there's 2 ways of training dogs to not chase sheep with an ecollar. One uses high levels. They do have to be high to be very aversive or the method may not work. So here, you are talking pain and yelping and crying from the dog. That is not being emotional - it will happen.

The second method does not use high levels. However, I'm not convinced of it and would never trust a loved dog to it - a dog's working level will be changing, so it may be that the dog is hurt at some stage even if accidentally, and also that dogs can power through ecollars. The dog may become desensitised and the dog's drive may over ride the training.
This is how many pet dog owners use ecollars. There is no actual "correct" way historically to use them, which is why many gundog owners use them on high, others may use them on lower levels...neither is wrong, in that sense.

Whatever makes you feel good Sally!!!


So you WANT to walk your dog thru a sheep field..so you go and buy a dog with prey drive?? Not a good move!

No I am not saying anything about BC's, BUT since you brought it up..It is in their breed to herd..so the people training them to do their job is working with their breed traits

No..I think its cruel to keep a dog tied up also..My dogs aren't tied up!! They are lead walked and worked on a scooter or a rig and off lead exercised in an enclosed area..
I work along with their traits by AVOIDING putting them in the situation where they can cause problems (such as sheep fields resulting in them being shot!)

If it were a choice between having my dog tied up or having my dog shot then I would be asking..show me where to tie them?

I think its you who needs to exercise the self control not the dog..the dog is being who he is..

I do not believe for one minute that you have no where else to walk..so let the dog be the dog he is and get him in the car and walk him elsewhere.....

Honestly!!! people buy these dogs and think..Oh mine will be different..yeah lets all break our dogs spirits by zapping them every time they do something *I* don't want him to do..the poor dog will be so miserable he won't want to do anything!