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Moobli
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20-10-2012, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Thanks, I would love that - I have a feeling Mia will actually love your boy too
Excellent We had better arrange a date before too long
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Jet&Copper
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20-10-2012, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Thanks, I would love that - I have a feeling Mia will actually love your boy too
Oh we def need to go over soon
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Gnasher
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20-10-2012, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Thanks Gnasher.

Basically Zak wouldn't/doesn't have the instinct to keep the flock together and so if they decided to make a run for it, he wouldn't be able to gather them back together and bring them back to me. The collies have no bother doing that at all. If a tup were to stand up to the collies (which does happen, but not all that often) then that would be a time the collie could legitimately grip the sheep on the nose to tell him the dog is in control.

Zak is remarkably calm and in control, and he will definitely be able to accompany me and/or hubby on sheep jobs. It may even be possible to eventually train him to help gather a hill (a la huntaway style) with the border collies, but he just lacks the instinct to be able to do these jobs single handedly. So much of a collie's job is inherent instinct, and unfortunately the herding/tending instinct in most GSDs has all but been bred out.
Thanx for explaining that, makes perfect sense! Ouch re the collie grip on the nose, poor tup!! It is amazing how these really quite small and lightly built dogs are so wiry, strong and brave. I would not like to take on one of your boys, they look very arsey!!

Shame about the herding instinct in the gsd'S having almost been bred out, still, times move on but it seems a shame to me to lose the original purpose for which a dog was "invented".
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Moobli
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20-10-2012, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
I'm just wondering if it's a bit different for gundog work as it's distance control and hand signals? Dunno probably not. It was Helen Philips that showed me a way i liked it done (Glen says im obsessed with doing things incrementally ).

Basically clicker train a nose touch to a cone or whatever, then gradually increase the distance between yourself and the cone, then add the hand signal, then the verbal cue. Then you tie it in with the retrieve by having the retrieve object at the cone so the dogs goes out but gets to the cone and goes ****** me there's a bird/ball/whatever. Then fade out the cone.

Glen does it differently, he does it like you, teach the dog that the signal means go in that direction based on it knowing something is there in advance.

That sounds like a good way to do it too
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Jet&Copper
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20-10-2012, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
That sounds like a good way to do it too
I love looking into all the different ways to train

Once im allowed out again () we will come over for the day it's been far too long
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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20-10-2012, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Thanx for explaining that, makes perfect sense! Ouch re the collie grip on the nose, poor tup!! It is amazing how these really quite small and lightly built dogs are so wiry, strong and brave. I would not like to take on one of your boys, they look very arsey!!

Shame about the herding instinct in the gsd'S having almost been bred out, still, times move on but it seems a shame to me to lose the original purpose for which a dog was "invented".
It is amazing to see what they do properly
A farm I have stayed on a few times, nearly got one of their dogs - and my friend has 2 of their dogs
The things we saw were amazing - nothing like 'one man and his dog'
The first time we met the shepherd one of the lambs had got stuck in a different field so we called him out
He came over, let the dog out the car then stood chatting to us - the dog looked at the field, seen what was wrong and went and got the lamb back all by himself

Also seen the same dog sent to get a ram for the vet - small sleek collie against a giant ram - not only did he bring him over but scruffed the ram and held him lying down for the vet to look at him - all with minimum force and agression

and although this dog was put to the farmers winning b!tch none of the puppies had good working instinct and are all in pet homes (and lovely calm dogs)
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Wozzy
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20-10-2012, 05:10 PM
Fantastic photos, Zak is so chilled with those sheep, my lot would sh1t a brick and run a mile! They dont care for livestock at all, especially close up!
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DaisyD0g
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20-10-2012, 05:31 PM
Brilliant photos LOVE Zac I have never seen a GSD working sheep before, I grew up on a farm with collies.. amazing to watch them work.

I saw someone last week at our local park doing sendaways to posts with her Golden, she was using a whistle and I could have watched her all day!

Daisy and Tilly thought that it looked SO boring being that well behaved and dragged me off to chase squirrels
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Moobli
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20-10-2012, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
It is amazing to see what they do properly
A farm I have stayed on a few times, nearly got one of their dogs - and my friend has 2 of their dogs
The things we saw were amazing - nothing like 'one man and his dog'
The first time we met the shepherd one of the lambs had got stuck in a different field so we called him out
He came over, let the dog out the car then stood chatting to us - the dog looked at the field, seen what was wrong and went and got the lamb back all by himself

Also seen the same dog sent to get a ram for the vet - small sleek collie against a giant ram - not only did he bring him over but scruffed the ram and held him lying down for the vet to look at him - all with minimum force and agression

and although this dog was put to the farmers winning b!tch none of the puppies had good working instinct and are all in pet homes (and lovely calm dogs)
I will never tire of watching sheepdogs performing their every day tasks, yet find sheepdog trials rather a dull spectator sport. Watching two or three sheepdogs gathering a large hill is definitely something special
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Moobli
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20-10-2012, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
I love looking into all the different ways to train

Once im allowed out again () we will come over for the day it's been far too long
I like the quickest and easiest way

Absolutely - get over before the weather gets bad BBe great to see you. We could either meet up at Dunbar or Vogrie and make it a Dogsey walk, or you and Ben could come up here. Leave it up to you guys.
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