You know I'd love one too.

totally agree.

One of the things that prompted me to post was an incident I saw mentioned elsewhere.

Someone had entered a persons back yard at night and the dog bit/mauled this guy. They were talking about how much blood was in the back yard and what a good dog the dog was.

I said that I would rather my dog ward off an intruder _without_ resorting to biting, as in this country the dog would almost certainly get put to sleep it if went to court, and also because there's a chance the person could have been a mentally disabled person, a child or just some silly drunk - they might have been stupid to enter someone else's property but did not deserve to be mauled.

What do you guys think of that? (The dog was trained in PP btw and it was in Greece.)

Both my Labs have done bite work in the past, they loved it, and yet they are both as soft as muck. Done correctly, that sort of training does not make a dog aggressive or unpredictable, but it's something I'd never train myself away from good classes. I'm not sure I'd ever want to buy a dog someone else has trained for protection reasons, for me, it'd be all about competing with, and working with your dog, the same as any other kind of training.

theres a big difference between a 'trained pp dog' and a numpty wanna be with an aggressive dog claiming its a guard dog.

Actually it was the death of a rescue Lab I took in. He went to the army for explosion detection work, was doing fairly well but didnt make it in the end. We rehomed him with a guy who had had a lab before. All was fine until a friend of the man patted him on the arm/shoulder saying goodbye to him in the street. The Lab latched onto his arm and wouldnt let go. After a lot of inquiring the army told us the dog "enjoyed" the sleeve and most likely saw the man as a threat. They also said it was not unusual for them to try different dogs on the sleeve as "fun." The man required many stitches. 17 I think but couldnt swear to it, could have been more.

This precisely demonstrates what happens when idiots get hold of dogs.

It is no different from dogs that are allowed to or encouraged to hunt and kill wildlife. Does not mean that those who go shooting are morons.

Nothing to do with bitework per se, just poor temperament combined with uneducated "training".

You can pat my dog on the head, you can shake hands with me, my dog would not see you as a threat, cos he has a genetically sound temperament, has been extremely well socialised and of course very well trained.

But the fact is idiots do get hold of dogs.

There is a club near us that I believe you have attended a training day and if so have met the person I am talking about.

They run training classes that are supposedly council approved and reccomend pinch collars to virtually all. They are so common in our area it is unbelievable.

Any dog is pushed to do protection training. Doesn't matter what the dog or having done any obedience training.

This same person was complained about for kicking his dog after failing a shutzhund trial and then failed the next after zapping another dog with an electric collar in the car park then wondering why it would not do the sendaway.

The first dog was rehomed on a free ad site to somebody that I believe had very little experience with dogs and then put out to stud.

This experience has given me a very low opinion of schutzhund which I am sure is not all clubs.

Replace the word Schutzhund with Gundog Training, etc.

Dogs are regularly zapped with e collars by SOME gundog trainers.

Pinch collars can be seen on virtually ALL pointers and setters and KC licensed Field Trials.

Exhibitors at Breed Shows, Agility Shows and Obedience Shows have been seeing kicking and abusing their dogs.

I am not sure where your belief comes from that I have attended a training day in Ireland?

The only time I have been to Ireland to attend any canine events is a) to exhibit at a breed show and b) to judge a Working Trial.

Of COURSE idiots get hold of dogs; they also get hold of guns; cars, knives etc, and maim and kill people with them.

Maybe we should ban cars and knives.....................

Oh strange. I do believe you saying you attended a training day that I mentioned on here in the past.

Claregalway????