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rune
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29-10-2010, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Aside from opinions I don't think I have seen actual research on this ever!

Adam
Oh what a shock!

Try giving Robin Walker a ring---if he is still around---anyone know?

Amazing and very clever vet.

rune
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rune
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29-10-2010, 12:30 PM
In 30 years of practice (including 22 as a veterinary advisor to a police dog section) I have seen numerous severely sprained necks, cases of fainting, transient forleg paresis and hind leg ataxia after robust use of the "check" chain. When the practice of slamming the dog sideways with a jerk that brought the foreparts clear of the ground and two or three feet towards the handler, became popular in the 1970's the resulting painful condition was known as "Woodhouse neck" in this practice. Some of these cases exhibited misalignment of cervical vertebrae on radiographs. My opthalmology colleagues have decided views on the relation between compression of the neck, intraocular pressure distrubances and damage to the cervical sympathetic nerve chain resulting in Horner's syndrom. I personally have seen a case of swollen eyes with petechial scleral haemorrhage and a number of temporarily voiceless dogs" - Robin Walker, Vet Record.
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TangoCharlie
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29-10-2010, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Was that "the" Terrierman, who write sometimes for DT?
I'd think he's a bit fixed in his views, although some of his articles are fairly common sensical, I was not impressed by others

Robin Walker is actually contactable via the apbc if you need to confirm this, although the Veterinary Record should be enough I'd think - it's reputable!

Wys
x
Hi
Yes, it was him. He had a silly argument. But concrete research is so valuable. But I searched and searched and could find none. The APDT leaflet had a reference to an old study, but again looking further, it was nowhere to be found. They have since changed their leaflet and it includes words from the vet mentioned above but no study.
You can say it's common sence not to use check chains but it becomes opinion. Thousands of people used them in the seventies, why dont we use them now? Has common sense changed? Some credable research with facts is hard to argue against.
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Adam P
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29-10-2010, 04:15 PM
There is no research, just opinions.

Adam
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Krusewalker
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29-10-2010, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
I have a bit of a problem with it as a photo doesn't always look at you!

We had a few we would just put photos of but for the more gregarious dogs it seemed fine to let people view them.

Different for different dogs.

rune
but anyone interested in the dogs can still get to see their faces.

then you have all the kennel stress dogs or noisy breeds like shepherds whom are great dogs, but you cannot home them, as people refuse to believe what you say and only believe what they see in the kennel.
which is why the little jack russell that has bitten several people badly gets asked about 5 times a day yet, no one believes you when you tell them he is aggressive "because he was quiet in the kennel"
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rune
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29-10-2010, 07:40 PM
And it is always old ladies---who want a small dog---and would be better off with a retired greyhound!

rune
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marley123
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29-10-2010, 11:19 PM
umm well check chains (choke chains) dont hurt the dog if u use them properly i use them for both of my jackrussels if we are out for the day
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TangoCharlie
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29-10-2010, 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by marley123 View Post
umm well check chains (choke chains) dont hurt the dog if u use them properly i use them for both of my jackrussels if we are out for the day
Hmmm! See concrete research is needed!
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TangoCharlie
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29-10-2010, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by marley123 View Post
umm well check chains (choke chains) dont hurt the dog if u use them properly i use them for both of my jackrussels if we are out for the day
A check chain is a piece of training equipment. If you are still using it, it ain't working! If the dogs walk well then you don't need it, if they don't then you are choking them or you are popping the lead (see the vets comments).
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Krusewalker
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30-10-2010, 07:49 AM
Originally Posted by TangoCharlie View Post
A check chain is a piece of training equipment. If you are still using it, it ain't working! If the dogs walk well then you don't need it, if they don't then you are choking them or you are popping the lead (see the vets comments).
but tango, your logic works both ways....see, thats just opinion, as you say, there's no research.

you have just assumed the poster meant/does above, they never said they choke or pop anymore.
also 'if you are still using it, it aint working' line could apply to hatlis and harnesses, could it not?

btw - i dont like choke chains
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