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Gnasher
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14-05-2007, 10:04 PM
Yes, Reading. The time we spent alone was really amazing. I can't wait to go back. I can't wait to watch the Sean Ellis programme on C5 on Friday I think it is.
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Gnasher
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14-05-2007, 10:05 PM
Hi tyektulu: well said.
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Lucky Star
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14-05-2007, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Yes, Reading. The time we spent alone was really amazing. I can't wait to go back. I can't wait to watch the Sean Ellis programme on C5 on Friday I think it is.
Same as us! Wasn't it wonderful though to see them 'doing their thing' in the woods rather than being stuck in cages?
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Wolfie
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14-05-2007, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Wolfie sorry, I have to disagree with you. I won't say where, how or when, but I knew some high percentage wolf crosses and they were just so completely the opposite of what you describe. Just like with any dog, it is the way they are brought up, trained and most important of all socialised that is important. Of course, if you have a high percentage or pure wolf, then it is rather difficult to pass it off as your average moggy, but believe you me, there is a lot of absolute tommy rot spoken and written about high percentage wolf crosses.
Hey, we're entitled to our opinions I can only draw on experience I've had.

The Sean Ellis prog is on on Friday, I've asked for a reminder
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pod
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14-05-2007, 10:16 PM
Gnasher I do see your point and sympathise to a certain extent, but you do seem to have a rather romantic, idealistic view of the wolf. It is a species just like any other.

I would of course prefer, from a purely selfish POV, if it didn't become extinct but if the human species behaves in a way that makes its existence impossible, then that is what will happen.

Mammals (which includes wolves, dogs and humans) have inhabited this earth for a very short time in the whole scheme of things and mass extinction of species have occured right through the history of the earth and will continue long after we have gone. The earth could infact continue in its persent form, perfectly well without all mammals. It couldn't however, without arthropods (which includes insects and crustaceans) and the most ancient life form of all, bacteria.
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Gnasher
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14-05-2007, 10:17 PM
All right, all right, I know, there I go again ...but actually being serious, it really is all guff - I been there, seen it, done it, bought the t-shirt and watched the film. The only thing I haven't done is eaten the stew !! Ha ha ... oh that's another fault I have, I ALWAYS laugh at my own jokes!
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Gnasher
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14-05-2007, 10:26 PM
I most certainly do not have a romantic view of wolves - I see nothing romantic in being hunted nearly to extinction for no better reason than a nice wolf rug for the floor. And how dare you say the wolf is "just a species like any other". Every species is special and unique, even my own ghastly destructive species, and now YOU are playing God by saying "just a species".

How very magnanimous of you to say that "you would of course prefer if it (meaning the wolf) didn't become extinct" - that is extremely noble of you, and the typical arrogance of man that has driven countless thousands of species to extinction. You then go on to say in so many words "oh well, so be it, if we can't learn to moderate our behaviour, then there will be no more wolves". I despair of you Pod, I really do!

You are quite right in what you say about mammals - they have only been around for the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms, and without bacteria there would indeed be no more life on earth at all - and the extinction of countless of thousands of species over eternity cannot be laid entirely at the doors of homo sapiens. However, we are now the kings of the castle, and as such we are responsible for the destruction of species on a daily basis - totally unnecessarily and in the full knowledge that we are doing just that - destroying completely for all eternity other living creatures.

THIS JUST IS NOT RIGHT.

On that note, I'm off to beddy byes - to hopefully live to debate another day !
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pod
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14-05-2007, 10:33 PM
I'm sorry if I've offended you Gnasher, I'm really trying to see this objectively. I don't see your objection to "just another species." Why is the wolf so different from any other?
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pod
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14-05-2007, 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
I most certainly do not have a romantic view of wolves - I see nothing romantic in being hunted nearly to extinction for no better reason than a nice wolf rug for the floor.
Just going back to this Gnasher, I'm trying to understand I don't see how the two parts of this sentence relate. It's your perception of the wolf that I find romantic.

And how dare you say the wolf is "just a species like any other". Every species is special and unique, even my own ghastly destructive species, and now YOU are playing God by saying "just a species".
I don't see the wolf, or the human for that matter, as any more or less a species than any other. There is no other life form and it's just a human way of taxonomic classification. Could you clarify why this offends.

How very magnanimous of you to say that "you would of course prefer if it (meaning the wolf) didn't become extinct" - that is extremely noble of you, and the typical arrogance of man that has driven countless thousands of species to extinction. You then go on to say in so many words "oh well, so be it, if we can't learn to moderate our behaviour, then there will be no more wolves". I despair of you Pod, I really do!

I may have worded this badly Gnasher, I was being objective, honestly! I do think you maybe read rather more emotively than the words intended.

and the extinction of countless of thousands of species over eternity cannot be laid entirely at the doors of homo sapiens.
That's just a bit of an understatement! Homo sapien as a species has been around for less than half a million years. Life on earth began over three and a half billion years ago. There have been many mass extinctions in that time. It's a natural process of the earth's evolution.

However, we are now the kings of the castle, and as such we are responsible for the destruction of species on a daily basis - totally unnecessarily and in the full knowledge that we are doing just that - destroying completely for all eternity other living creatures.
I know you're not going to like this Gnasher but this is another normal part of evolution. Nobody is saying it is 'right' but to take an objective view, it isn't wrong either. It just happens. Now I can understand this sounding arrogant, if you were viewing this emotively.

You may believe us to be king now but this is only one snippet of the timeframe just as the dinosaur reign was.
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Lucky Star
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14-05-2007, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
You may believe us to be king now but this is only one snippet of the timeframe just as the dinosaur reign was.
Dinosaurs reigned for almost 160 million years. And we've been around for just a few hundred thousand. What will we do, given the same time span as the dinosaurs ... ?
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